Aviatik Staaken

[Derry]

Greetings all!

Here is an interesting colour interpretation of the Late War Aviatik Staaken. It had me scratching my head until I had spent a few days reviewing the photograph attached and I STILL don't see lozenge on the fuselage, as in the artwork seen here. I'm beginning to think this was actually delivered as a day bomber finished in similar colours to ALL late-war day-bomber, ground attack and trench fighting aircraft. More specifically, dark drab brown fuselages similar to Junkers machines or Hannover and Halberstadt and 5 Colour Day Printed pattern uppers. (Dan-San, you can join this discussion anytime now!)

The wings definitively show 5 Colour Printed Repeating Pattern Lozenge Fabric.

I believe this aircraft was NOT painted OR printed in 5 Colour Night Fabric.
Which then narrows it down for Day aircraft doesn't it? Either way, the fuselage is not lozenged as depicted in the Roden kit.

I'm starting this build and will see how she starts to look after the 5 Colour goes on compared to a Brown Drab fuselage. I may be out on a limb here but if anyone can add to this, I would very much appreciate it!

Cheers

Derry

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Derry:
The Staaken R.XVI(Av) 49, 51 through 54/17 were covered with the Night very dark Five Color Printed fabric on all surfaces. R.XVI 50/17 appears to be covered with the Day Dark Five Color printed fabric on ALL surfaces. It was finished after the war. Ref. THE GERMAN GIANTS BY G.W. Haddow and Peter M.Grosz. Putnam , London, Third edition 1988. Pages 273-278.
Derry, don't give too much credence to artist renderings, generally they are not very reliable.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Derry]

Thanks Dan San,

I knew 50 wasn't in Night camouflage. I do have the 5 Colour Dark Day Pattern done and will be proofing with my other 2 artists this Friday for the 2nd Staaken Sheet. The regular Staaken sheet with Dark Ruby and cactus Green, Midnight etc, should be back within a couple of weeks and I'll post pic's when they arrive.

Still, what the fuselage finished in? It's not lozenge, hence my suspicion it was painted in one of the 5 Colours used for the upper surfaces. Then again, tonal qualities seem to suggest a Dark Green similar to the Cactus Green or possibly Prussian Blue? Your guess is as good as mine.

The GL VII's were delivered with Dark Brownish Green Fuselages and engine nacelles. So were late war Friedrichshafens, Halberstadts, Hannover's, late Albatros types and A.E.G.s. Could it be that this began as common practice at war's end? Even the Fokkers found fighting on the Eastern Front were delivered with Dark Brownish Green fuselages.

I don't want to get into idle speculations here, just looking at possible issues regarding maintenance problems of haste and getting the aircraft into service as quickly as possible. What may have begun as SOP may not have yet been laid down by Idflieg, and at War's end became a moot issue.

I'll be going to a small archive to seek additional info on this near the end of the month. There exists a repository of photographic records which date from 1895 through the war years up to 1964. This collection has never seen the light of day since 1964. There are reasons for this I won't go into here, but to say they exist and are made up of approx. 350 file boxes. I'll be at it for about 2 weeks, (the limit of time I can spend away from work). I'll let you know what I come up with. I can say that the last files I opened the previous year, were photographic plates of Austro-Hungarian aircraft at the pre-war air meets in Monte Carlo and Monaco c. 1910-1913. That was as far as I got then. There are close to 34 file boxes dealing with World War I alone.

Contact me off site if you're interested in this.

Cheers!

Derry

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Derry:
The fuselage was covered with five color day dark printed fabric. I said ALL surfaces.
I am curious about the dark brownish green on Go.G.VII and other aircraft. What is your data source? I believe that data is incorrect.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Derry]

Hello Dan-San,

It very well could be, but for the moment, we can agree that certain aircraft were finished on their fuselages in a finish which was NOT 4 or 5 Colour Lozenge. A Friedrichshafen Bomber used in the Ukraine being a particular example. Gotha GL. VII's also sporting a single colour fuselage and engine nacelles. Aviatik 50/17 doesn't appear to me to be sporting fuselage lozenge either. The Friedrichshafen in the Ukraine is particularly interesting as it shows the previous German markings conspicuously painted out in contrast to the fuselage finish.

Just what I have as still photographs scanned for me by a friend from
"Die Flugzeuge des Alexander Baumann" by Heinz Nowarra and what we interpret to be the colour's from photographs of the Staakens. There are a number of factory photographs of these aircraft and their use in the Ukraine.
There simply isn't enough info in "The German Giants" by Grosz and Hadrow.

I'm not at home but have them on my hard drive at the shop. There are also photographs from an earlier book c. 1925?-1930? showing photographs of these aircraft post-armistice. Actually fairly decent shots including several Friedrichshafens, I just can't remember where I got them from; either a friend on the forums in Hungary or at RLM.at. That's all I can remember at the moment. I'll post the Gotha Pic's which look like factory shots when I get a chance.

Cheers!

Derry

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Derry:
THE GERMAN GIANTS, Third edition, has one photo of R.49/17 and two photos of R.50/17, one 3/4 left front view on the ground, and a 3/4 rear view just after take-off about 25 ft from the ground. This photo very clearly shows the intermediate dark day printed fabric on the fuselage and right fin and rudder.
Yes, I would be interested in the photo collection you mentioned.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[JerryBoucher]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Derry, don't give too much credence to artist renderings, generally they are not very reliable.

Another thing to bear in mind is the quality of reproduction in any given photo, and from what source it has been derived from. Then factor in what's happening with the photographic media (which has it's own pecularities) and the environment in which the photograph was taken (which can also have a variety of effects).

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Jerry Boucher:
There are so many poor photograghs and so few first generation photos to work from.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[JerryBoucher]

Yes, and that tends to throw in another helping of problems into the mix.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Derry:
The Gotha Go.VII, Go.IX, Go.IX(LVG) aircraft were covered with 1918 very dark five color printed fabric on all surfaces in dark blues. Why would "they"paint the fuselage brownish green? What is your source for this?I am curious.
blue skies,
Dan-san