air combat of 1916 july 11

[alafon]

Hello,

I'm looking for informations of the combat that occured july 11 of 1916, between the french Nieuport 16 - 1355 of sergent pilot Emile Bouderie - squadron N 38 - and five ennemies aircrafts. Emil Bouderie was shot down and made a prisoneer. The landing field was La Noblette (51).

My mother, whose Emile Bouderie (1891-1964) was the father in law, told me that that he could have been shot down by Hermann Goering. I did'nt find any trace of this event, but...

Emile Bouderie who was left whith broken legs spent his all career "sur le plancher des vaches" in aviation and finished WWII as a Commandant in Forces aériennes française libres and Lieutenant Commander of the RAF...

He was a very charming man.

[retread]

From what I can see Goring looks doubtful. He had confirmed victories March 14, 1916 and not again until July 30th, for his second and third kills. Goring was probably flying out of Stenay at the time , likely a Halberstadt D.III.
I did a search on google earth for La Noblette and came up with a location in west central France- obviously wrong.

[alafon]

The air field of "La Noblette" was situated in Champagne, in the village of La Cheppe (51) very close to the "Attila camp's" archeological place and in the vicinity of the modern camp of Suippes. source history of La Cheppe
The exact location is lieu dit "le moulin de la vallée" to day a field along the D994 departmental road
Section E

For Goering I made the same search - my oral information was false

[Frank_Olynyk]

For July 11, 1916 I show only three German claims, two balloons and an "English Gitterrumpf" (and I don't think a Nieuport 11 would qualify). The balloons were in Russia and France. The Gitterrumpf was claimed at Athies, ds. (dies seit, German side of the lines). No time. Credited only to Kaghol 1, the pilot is not know to me; the observer was Oblt. Hermann Maurer.

Possibly the date is off by a day. On the 10th there are 7 claims. Two are in Russia, and one on the Channel/Flanders area by i. m ffla. Of the others, a Caudron W. of Vouziers by Ltn. Werner Lehmann; a Nieuport W of Vouziers by Ltn d R Helmut Baldamus; and two unidentified aircraft in the Somme area, location and crew unknown to me. The claims W of Vouziers are both noted as ds (and thus the crews would have been captured, or buried by the Germans)

I do not show any German claims on July 12.

Frank.

[AZ Aviator]

One good source to check would be Cross & Cockade Journal USA, Vol. 17, No. 1, Spring 1976, The History of Escadrille N/SPA 38, by Frank W. Bailey.

[alafon]

Thanks !

The date july 11 -1916 was found in official records - Nieuport and army citation.

Awaiting to consult the personnal record of E B

Alain

[rammjaeger]

The Heeresbericht, published on 11 July 1916, reports for the western front 5 losses of enemy airplanes (4 by air combat):

"... der Feind (verlor) an der Somme und westlich von Vouziers je zwei Flugzeuge. Außerdem ist ein englischer Doppeldecker bei Courcellete (an der Straße Bapaume-Albert) durch Abwehrfeuer heruntergeholt."

When I did deal with the Heeresbericht in the past then I noticed the HB reports mostly the incidents of the day before (11th for the 10th) but in some cases the HB does also report older and sometimes even incidents of the same day! The latter behaviour seems to be in contradiction to the "break time" for the reports but it happens.
On the other hand I have also often noticed delayed reports on the other, Allied side of the lines (e.g. loss of the 10th July recorded on 11th July).

Anyway. IMHO The location Vouziers (Champagne) in the HB (calls mostly bigger locations near the real location) seems to be a good choice.
I would suggest that Emile Bouderie´s loss fits to the victory west of Vouziers [in fact probably more south to V.!] by a "Helmut Baldamus" but the name puzzles me. I know Hartmuth Baldamus but the latter did not get a confirmation for this date according to my sources. (... but the name Baldamus is not that seldom in Germany and Saxony) Sadly, my notes of the Kofl 3 reports start not before end of July 1916.

[alafon]

Regulus reported in 2002 a French Nieuport was shot down the 10th of july 1916 b Hamer and Schmidt-Koppen of marine Flieger Abteilung I.

[rammjaeger]

To my knowledge the Marine-(Navy)-Flieger did never fly in the Champagne!

[James A. Pratt III]

Allied Losses:
10 July 16 FASWC C51 crew KIA, VC110 P OK & O WIA Flak, N26 aircraft shot down in flames own lines P OK, Lt Joesph Desjardines unit unk WIA, 85 Cie d'Aerostiers balloon attacked not flamed Sossions area (11 Jul German claim?).
TSTB BE2 5 sqn damaged 1 WIA mg fire night bombing, BE2 9Sqn shot down AA 2 POW.