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| Camouflage, Colors and Markings Topics related to Camouflage, Colors and Markings of WWI aircraft |
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16 February 2008, 12:50 PM
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#1 |
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Two-seater Pilot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 200
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Pfalz DIII for Berthold???
Hi there!
Not sure if I should post this in "aircraft" or "people" since it concerns both. Anyway: Did Berthold ever flew a red/blue Pfalz DIII (and not DIIIa which I know he did pilot) with his famous flying sword emblem? If so for how long? Any victories in it? Eduard released a bunch of years ago his 1/48 Pfalz DIII with this scheme, burt I haven't been able to find anything else other than his DIIIa. Anyone? Thanks. Ciao Iwik |
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16 February 2008, 01:30 PM
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#2 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Charles, Iowa
Posts: 6,724
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Dear Iwik,
Yes he did:  I'm a bit reluctant to post this image, as I was hoping to save it for a book sometime down the road. However, others will have seen it (and saved it) from the ebay auction. It's already been posted here before, anyway. Berthold flew this for a short time in the autumn of 1917, as commander of Jasta 18. He may not have flown it for long, for he was seriously wounded on 10 October and put out of action for some time. He did score 14 victories in September 1917 - one of his best stretches of the war - and he might have been flying this a/c for some of the final ones. However, he was photographed following his 25th victory on 26 September 1917, and on that occasion he was photographed with his old Albatros D.III. So I'm not sure exactly how many victories might have been scored in his Pfalz D.III, probably not many. He scored his 28th victory on 2 October before being wounded on the 10th. Greg
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Greg VanWyngarden An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field. Niels Bohr |
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16 February 2008, 09:36 PM
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#3 |
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 6,121
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Berthold's Pfalz
Gregvan
I'm in the library without my material to consult. But isn't there a photo of this Pfalz lined up with Js 15 in Spring 1918 with modified post March crosses?? Always found it interesting considering the generally negative press the Pfalz gets. JG Kammanduer chosing a Pfalz as his mount!!! Think it was a better plane than is given credit. Just didn't supply the break away advantage the German were looking for - they had to waite for the DVII. Russ |
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16 February 2008, 10:00 PM
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#4 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Charles, Iowa
Posts: 6,724
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Russ,
The photo you're thinking of actually shows Berthold's better-known Pfalz D.IIIa, not this earlier D.III. It was taken at Balatre in early 1918, and does indeed show Berthold's D.IIIa at the head of a line-up of Jasta 15 fighters (the majority of them ex-Jasta 18 aircraft). Most of the aircraft in the line-up are Albatros D.V's, but there are two other Pfalz D.IIIa's in the group besides Berthold's. The question is, how much did Berthold actually fly the D.IIIa? My guess is, not much. According to JG II historian Hanns Möller and Berthold's German biographers, he was still in recovery (and often in great pain) from his wound suffered on 10 October 1917, and did not return to active flying until 28 May 1918. By that time he had managed to acquire one of the first Fokker D.VIIs. However, Berthold was an extremely aggressive Draufgänger and it's likely he eagerly anticipated his return to combat much sooner - and thus had a Pfalz D.IIIa painted up and ready for use after he took command of JG II. As he had earlier flown the Pfalz D.III in the photo, it certainly does seem that he may have had a preference for the Pfalz over the Albatros. I can't confirm that, however. Greg
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Greg VanWyngarden An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field. Niels Bohr |
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16 February 2008, 10:10 PM
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#5 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SISTERS,OREGON U.S.A.
Posts: 5,201
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Hi Iwik,
Check this out for Berthold's Pfalz D.III: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/ai...ii-d-iiia.html Fotos start at about post#11. Here's a sample:  Also this one for Berthold's Pfalz D.IIIa: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/ca...word-nr-i.html Iwik, I hope that this is helpful. QUOTE: Gregvan:"I'm a bit reluctant to post this image, as I was hoping to save it for a book sometime down the road. However, others will have seen it (and saved it) from the ebay auction. It's already been posted here before, anyway."QUOTE. I look forward to your book sometime down the road, even more so after the teasing fotograf of what we can expect! As always, thanks for sharing the information. Very Best Regards, FOKKERJ |
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18 February 2008, 12:29 AM
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#6 |
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Two-seater Pilot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 200
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Diii
Hi there!
Thank you all for these enlightnening answers and links! Thanks Greg for sharing that pix, and your wonderful books! All this to realize that I will not be able to use Roden's Berthold decal from their Albatros DIII kit for their Pfalz DIII kit. Thanks again! Ciao IWik |
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18 February 2008, 12:44 AM
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#7 | |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SISTERS,OREGON U.S.A.
Posts: 5,201
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Quote:
Can't you trim the handle so that it is symmetrical? Best Regards, FOKKERJ |
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19 February 2008, 02:22 AM
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#8 |
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Two-seater Pilot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 200
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Wings
Hi!
If only it was the handle! The shape of the wings is way different! If I really want to portray his plane I will have to find an exact profil and scan it to scale so as to make a mask of the winged sword. Need to find a profil now, since the only ones I have is for his Alb DIII , Fokker DVII and Pfalz DIIIa, and none are similar to his PDIII. Anyone has the eduard Pfalz DIII sheet with his camo (if it's correct!)? Ciao Iwik |
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