Green Tail color?

Olson · 2 January 2008, 08:03 AM

I (perhaps erroneously) assume that the "Green Tail" color used as a squadron I.D. by Jasta 5 was field applied, and therefore not necessarily in conformity with any sort of regulation. Is there any accurate characterization or description of the actual shade of green used? I hesitate to ask the same question about the red trim band.

JFM · 2 January 2008, 09:19 AM

I, too, would be interested to learn if there is an "official" description of this green. Illustrations have it anywhere from pea green to dark hunter green. IMO, it was toward a lighter shade, as (for instance) in the July 1917 lineup photos at Boistrancourt the shade of green is much lighter than that of the grass, trees and hedge. In other shots the serial numbers can be discerned through the paint (Hippert's D.5639/17).

Dan_San_Abbott · 2 January 2008, 12:33 PM

Olson;
Every manufacturer had to supply in the spares listing the camouflage paint colors, which green was not one. H.D. Hastings and Paul Parker,Jr. produced a book titled "War Planes in Battle Dress:1914-18" walker and Company ,New York, It is undated, but around 1960. In it is Ltn. H.-J. von Hippel's Jasta 5, Alb.D.V with the fire breathing Dragon painted on the side of the fuselage. They aparently were in contact with von Hippel and receive photographs and information on the green of the green tail. The color of green they used is Metheun 26D8, Chrome green. and the red is Methuen 10B8, Post Office red.
Happy New Year,
Dan-San

JFM · 2 January 2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Olson;
Every manufacturer had to supply in the spares listing the camouflage paint colors, which green was not one. H.D. Hastings and Paul Parker,Jr. produced a book titled "War Planes in Battle Dress:1914-18" walker and Company ,New York, It is undated, but around 1960. In it is Ltn. H.-J. von Hippel's Jasta 5, Alb.D.V with the fire breathing Dragon painted on the side of the fuselage. They aparently were in contact with von Hippel and receive photographs and information on the green of the green tail. The color of green they used is Metheun 26D8, Chrome green. and the red is Methuen 10B8, Post Office red.
Happy New Year,
Dan-San

Fascinating, DSA. (Of course, above I meant Hippel, not Hippert--hard for me to focus when the kids-on-vacation are tugging at my sleeve!)

Olson · 2 January 2008, 01:36 PM

Once again Dan-San-Thank you! As I don't have access to Metheun color charts, is there another system that I can refer to; or perhaps there are descriptive terms which might define the colors a little better? Is there any correlation between the Metheun system and RBG colors available on (for instance) Photoshop? I'm sure I'm not the first to ask this, sorry if I am overlooking a previous thread that resolves this matter.......John

Dan_San_Abbott · 2 January 2008, 05:48 PM

Olson:
Insignia red, red!
Not as bright or orangy as Vermilion, standard red. Brillant Red.
Happy New Year,
Dan-San

davecww1 · 3 January 2008, 10:04 AM

Hi Dan-San,
How about Chrome green? any close matches in the Testors Model Master line of paint, or FS colors that would be equal th the Meuthen colors? wish someone would do a cross reference book of colors somewhere.
Thanks,
Dave

Galloway · 3 January 2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecww1

Hi Dan-San,
How about Chrome green? any close matches in the Testors Model Master line of paint, or FS colors that would be equal th the Meuthen colors? wish someone would do a cross reference book of colors somewhere.
Thanks,
Dave

Hello Dave,

I do not know if you have access to Humbrol paint? I believe Squadron Mail Order still carries these?
Humbrol HF 2 Vert (Green) is almost a perfect match!
I am not sure what the new numbering/naming system for Humbrol is, but I think HU101 Midnight Green is the new name/number?

Humbrol does have a Chrome Green satin HU195, but it appears way to dark!

I hope this helps?

Ken

pvernon · 3 January 2008, 11:51 AM

HI,
On "theminiturespage.com" this online color matching data base was posted recently.
Color Match 1.0
If you have the hex version of the RBG color specification you can search aganst a data base of paints that come close by a bunch of difforent companies. You can also match colors for one comany to anouther.
Hope this is helpful.

Patrick · 3 January 2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvernon

HI,
On "theminiturespage.com" this online color matching data base was posted recently.
Color Match 1.0
If you have the hex version of the RBG color specification you can search aganst a data base of paints that come close by a bunch of difforent companies. You can also match colors for one comany to anouther.
Hope this is helpful.

Unfortunately, the information in the data base keyed to RGB color coordinates is worthless except to the person who owns the monitor & system that generated the RGB values. If you look back in earlier threads, we've hashed through this topic a few times before. For example --

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/ca...tml#post222638

You can't use RGB coordinates as a color matching system. RGB is device dependent notation whose coordinate values are determined by the internal color space model of the software that you're using to view the color sample, and the monitor itself. If we're both trying to view an identical hue of green on our computers and I provide you with the RGB coordinates of the color from my system, they will not yield the identical color results on your system. You'll likely see green, but if we could put your monitor side-by-side with mine and display the sample on both, you'd immediately notice a difference. Depending on your software's internal color space model and the state of your monitor's calibration and it's age, the difference can be very distinct -- as if we were looking at two completely different green hues, even though the RGB values are identical.

The only output color space model that can be used to communicate color values between two digital systems with reliability and fidelity is CIE 1976 L* a* b* color space (CIELAB). CIELAB is device independent; it models the human perception of color under defined viewing conditions rather than the color output of a physical device. PhotoShop supports CIELAB as do most high-end graphics applications. The data base you reference would be of value if it allowed you to enter CIELAB coordinates rather than RGB. The CIELAB coordinates on our computer systems will be identical for the same color hue; our RGB coordinates will always be different.

If you're interested in a good introductory read on color theory and color managment for digital systems, I highly recommend the following book:

Amazon.com: Real World Color Management (2nd Edition) (Real World): Books: Bruce Fraser,Chris Murphy,Fred Bunting