AGO/Otto Pusher Biplane specifications

[chrispaulodale]

Hi guys,
I've only just stumbled upon this forum... looks great!
I'm looking for details such as wingspan, length, top speed on the Ago/Otto biplane as used by Bruno Bruechner in German East Africa during the first months of the First World War. Also looking for similar info for the LFG Roland biplane flown in German South West Africa. Any assistance would be appreciated.
Cheers
Chris

[Kacey]

Originally Posted by chrispaulodale

Hi guys,
I've only just stumbled upon this forum... looks great!
I'm looking for details such as wingspan, length, top speed on the Ago/Otto biplane as used by Bruno Bruechner in German East Africa during the first months of the First World War. Also looking for similar info for the LFG Roland biplane flown in German South West Africa. Any assistance would be appreciated.
Cheers
Chris

If your talking about the AGO C.I or C.II you can find data at the site below:

Virtual Aircraft Museum

Also info on the LFG Roland C.II. (one of my personal favorites)

KC

[Old Man]

I am looking at the old Harleyford Reconnaisance and Bomber Aircraft 1914-1918 volume, which has an entry for the Otto Type B, illustrated with a picture of the machine in East Africa.


In the tables at the back, dimensions listed are Upper span, 49 feet, Lower span, 31 feet, 6 inches, chord for both wings, 5 fee, 11 inches, Gap, 5 feet, 3 inches, length, 35 feet, 5 inches, height, 11 feet, 9 inches.

The only performance figure given is a speed of 68 mph at ground level, but as the commentary paragraphs stress that the machine was thought to be pretty slow, that may be an optimist's figure, as it exceeds the speeds given for Aviatik and Albatross BI types, which I strongly doubt would have led to a reputation for being very slow in German circles.

It is described as powered with a 100 hp Mercedes, and having inversely tapered ailerons on the upper wing only, and tubular tail booms.

I have a German book which has a 1/144 scale drawing of the type, but it is not immediately to hand. I do not have scanning capability, but I would be happy to mail you a photocopy, if you send me a note here on the site with an address. The drawings are, shall we say, acceptable, and I have never seen any others.

I regret I cannot help with the Roland bi-plane, but certainly hope someone else can, because I am interested in that type as well.

[Old Man]

It is a link to a model of the Otto:

German Miscellaneous WWI Plastic Airplanes

"The information for the build is found in Windsock International Vol. 11, No.1 Jan/Feb 1995, pages 21-24."

[chrispaulodale]

Thank you both very much for the quick and informative replies. That helps a lot.

I'm wondering if the picture here-
Ago 14 -
shows Bruechner's plane after it was converted into a seaplane? Do you know if there was a standard variant for this type of plane being a seaplane back in Germany? If not then this almost certainly is our one...

I'm guessing the Roland LVG biplane is on that website is not the same one as used in South West Africa as the website says it was made in 1915 and the African one was sent out there in 1914. But maybe they were very similar?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm writing a short article for my website ( German Colonial Uniforms ) about the aircraft in the colonies in the First World War and I'd like to show info on the planes used. Here's a quick summary of info I've found on the part aircraft played in these campaigns. I hope you might find it interesting, but also please let me know if you spot any errors or have anything else to add as I must admit the study of aircraft is not my area of expertise- and it clealry is yours!

Cheers
Chris

German East Africa
A civilian pilot, Bruno Brüchner, was the first pilot to fly in German Africa. He was sponsored by a confectionary company, Rudolf Hertzog, so take part in various air shows in Africa with an AGO pusher Biplane made by Pfalz. He first stopped off in German South West Africa in May 1914 to fly several displays, then travelled to German East Africa to fly shows there but the events were cancelled by the outbreak of the First World War. In August 1914 he and his mechanic and the biplane were incorporated into the Schutztruppe. During one of the first reconnaissance missions over the Northern coastline of German East Africa Brüchner was shot down by a British gunboat. He managed to land on the coast but was badly injured and the plane severely damaged. Both were out of action. The plane was repaired at Dar-Es-Salaam and Brüchner's place was taken by Oberleutnant Erich Henneberger, a Schutztruppe officer who had previously passed his pilot's test in Germany. Before he saw action he crashed during a test flight and was killed. His observer, Leutnant der Reserve von Gusmann, was badly injured and the plane again was wrecked. This time the plane was rebuilt on floats as a seaplane to assist the SMS Königsberg in time for Brüchner's recovery from his injuries. Soon however, petrol supplies ran low and the plane was dismantled.

German South West Africa
When Brüchner sallied to German South West Africa, two other pilots were onboard the same ship sent to form a new Schutztruppe air force. One was Leutnant Alexander von Scheele, an army pilot who was appointed to command the new Schutztruppe air force, the other was Willy Trück, an Aviatik factory pilot. A third pilot, the Austro-Hungarian, Paul Fiedler, joined them shortly after. They had two aeroplanes between them, an Aviatik and a Roland, both biplanes. Trück and Fiedler initially performed test flights on the aircraft under the supervision of Scheele and it was reported that neither aircraft was particularly fit for flight in the the climate of South West Africa. Before the aeroplanes could be replaced however, war broke out and they were pressed into service. Von Scheele now took over the role of piloting the Aviatik from Trück, while Fiedler flew the Roland. Both pilots flew many sorties over South African lines during the campaign, gaining valuable information on enemy troop movements (Fiedler was also a keen and useful photographer) and dropping bombs on enemy positions. Both pilots were injured and both planes were damaged to various extents throughout the campaign by crashes and enemy gunfire often meaning their grounding for weeks at a time. The last mission was flown by von Scheele in May 1915. The Schutztruppe surrendered in July and both planes were destroyed before falling into enemy hands.

Tsingtao
In July 1914 the imperial navy sent two aeroplanes to the German naval base at Tsingtao. Both aeroplanes were Rumpler Taube monoplanes. The pilots were Gunter Plüschow and Friedrich Müllerskowski. Müllerskowski was badly injured and his aeroplane wrecked in a test flight in July 1914 leaving Plüschow as the only active pilot with an aeroplane in Tsingtao when war broke out. During the siege he ran spotting missions over the Japanese lines and claimed to have shot down a Japanese aeroplane with his pistol. When the garrison surrendered and went into captivity he was ordered to escape by flying his aeroplane into China, where he crash landed and started an epic journey back to Germany.

Cameroon
Two aeroplanes, a Rumpler Taube monoplane and a Jeannin monoplane were sent to the Schutztruppe in Cameroon during 1914. They arrived just before the outbreak of war and were still unassembled in their packing crates when they were captured by British troops. The airfield to which they had not yet been delivered was being built at Garua in the North of the colony by Hans Surén, a Schutztruppe officer who had previously passed his pilot's test in Germany. The captured aeroplanes were sent, still cased, to assist the newly formed South African air force but did not see action.

[YavorD]

Useful information can be found on the following old pages.

Waterplanes "Made in Germany". Flight, September 25, 1914, pp. 976-978.

The Ago seaplane. Flight, September 25, 1914, pp. 976-978.

Regards,
Yavor

[Old Man]

Originally Posted by chrispaulodale

Thank you both very much for the quick and informative replies. That helps a lot.

I'm wondering if the picture here-
Ago 14 -
shows Bruechner's plane after it was converted into a seaplane? Do you know if there was a standard variant for this type of plane being a seaplane back in Germany? If not then this almost certainly is our one...

I'm guessing the Roland LVG biplane is on that website is not the same one as used in South West Africa as the website says it was made in 1915 and the African one was sent out there in 1914. But maybe they were very similar?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm writing a short article for my website ( German Colonial Uniforms ) about the aircraft in the colonies in the First World War and I'd like to show info on the planes used. Here's a quick summary of info I've found on the part aircraft played in these campaigns. I hope you might find it interesting, but also please let me know if you spot any errors or have anything else to add as I must admit the study of aircraft is not my area of expertise- and it clealry is yours!

Cheers
Chris

German East Africa
A civilian pilot, Bruno Brüchner, was the first pilot to fly in German Africa. He was sponsored by a confectionary company, Rudolf Hertzog, so take part in various air shows in Africa with an AGO pusher Biplane made by Pfalz. He first stopped off in German South West Africa in May 1914 to fly several displays, then travelled to German East Africa to fly shows there but the events were cancelled by the outbreak of the First World War. In August 1914 he and his mechanic and the biplane were incorporated into the Schutztruppe. During one of the first reconnaissance missions over the Northern coastline of German East Africa Brüchner was shot down by a British gunboat. He managed to land on the coast but was badly injured and the plane severely damaged. Both were out of action. The plane was repaired at Dar-Es-Salaam and Brüchner's place was taken by Oberleutnant Erich Henneberger, a Schutztruppe officer who had previously passed his pilot's test in Germany. Before he saw action he crashed during a test flight and was killed. His observer, Leutnant der Reserve von Gusmann, was badly injured and the plane again was wrecked. This time the plane was rebuilt on floats as a seaplane to assist the SMS Königsberg in time for Brüchner's recovery from his injuries. Soon however, petrol supplies ran low and the plane was dismantled.

German South West Africa
When Brüchner sallied to German South West Africa, two other pilots were onboard the same ship sent to form a new Schutztruppe air force. One was Leutnant Alexander von Scheele, an army pilot who was appointed to command the new Schutztruppe air force, the other was Willy Trück, an Aviatik factory pilot. A third pilot, the Austro-Hungarian, Paul Fiedler, joined them shortly after. They had two aeroplanes between them, an Aviatik and a Roland, both biplanes. Trück and Fiedler initially performed test flights on the aircraft under the supervision of Scheele and it was reported that neither aircraft was particularly fit for flight in the the climate of South West Africa. Before the aeroplanes could be replaced however, war broke out and they were pressed into service. Von Scheele now took over the role of piloting the Aviatik from Trück, while Fiedler flew the Roland. Both pilots flew many sorties over South African lines during the campaign, gaining valuable information on enemy troop movements (Fiedler was also a keen and useful photographer) and dropping bombs on enemy positions. Both pilots were injured and both planes were damaged to various extents throughout the campaign by crashes and enemy gunfire often meaning their grounding for weeks at a time. The last mission was flown by von Scheele in May 1915. The Schutztruppe surrendered in July and both planes were destroyed before falling into enemy hands.

Tsingtao
In July 1914 the imperial navy sent two aeroplanes to the German naval base at Tsingtao. Both aeroplanes were Rumpler Taube monoplanes. The pilots were Gunter Plüschow and Friedrich Müllerskowski. Müllerskowski was badly injured and his aeroplane wrecked in a test flight in July 1914 leaving Plüschow as the only active pilot with an aeroplane in Tsingtao when war broke out. During the siege he ran spotting missions over the Japanese lines and claimed to have shot down a Japanese aeroplane with his pistol. When the garrison surrendered and went into captivity he was ordered to escape by flying his aeroplane into China, where he crash landed and started an epic journey back to Germany.

Cameroon
Two aeroplanes, a Rumpler Taube monoplane and a Jeannin monoplane were sent to the Schutztruppe in Cameroon during 1914. They arrived just before the outbreak of war and were still unassembled in their packing crates when they were captured by British troops. The airfield to which they had not yet been delivered was being built at Garua in the North of the colony by Hans Surén, a Schutztruppe officer who had previously passed his pilot's test in Germany. The captured aeroplanes were sent, still cased, to assist the newly formed South African air force but did not see action.

I strongly doubt that the floatplane pictured has any relation to Herr Buchner's machine: the tail assembly is very different. The Harleyford entry notes that the version built by Pfalz 'could be distinguished by its angular rudder and elevators'. The photograph of the machine it includes shows it against a background of palms, with six native soldiers lined up at attention before the starboard wings, and a man in pale clothing standing by the starboard side of the nacelle. There is a tube slanting forward and down from the cockpit, a common early device for dropping small bombs. The machine does not appear to display any national markings, at least on the undersurface of the wings, and it was common, at least for German machines in the early days to display the cross on white on both surfaces of both wings. It sounds from your description as if the floats eventually fitted were a local improvisation, and unless some picture comes to light, their character could only be guessed at.

The L.V.G. machine pictured at your link is no relation to the L.F.G. Roland you are interested in. L.V.G. and L.F.G. were different companies, with L.F.G. adopting the trade-name 'Roland' to avoid confusion with the former, more prominent firm. Here is a link to a picture of an early 'Roland' biplane:

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/...8/LFGarrow.jpg

I have no idea, though, if the machine in this picture resembles the one you are interested in particularly, beyond a sort of 'family resemblance". There was not a lot of standardization in aeroplane manufacture at that time, especially in smaller firms. "Pfiel" (arrow) was a generic term for machines with some sweep-back to their leading edges, which was common in pre-war German biplane design. Hopefully, someone with more expertise on German types will see this and weigh in: I am more to the Cockade side of things than the Cross side in my interests.

Though you did not enquire about the Aviatik accompanying the Roland, the Windsock Datafile on Aviatik B-types has a couple of photographs of that machine, including at least one of its pilots in uniform, and of course exhaustive particulars on the type. There is a great deal of information floating about on the Tsingtao Tauben, and numerous pictures of the Rumpler varieties of Taube. The Japanese in that campaign operated early Maurice Farman types, model M.F. 6, very similar to the more common M.F. 7: pusher machines with a forward elevator borne on great skids curving up from the undercarriage, for which the style was dubbed 'longhorn' by the English. The "Jeannin monoplane" at Cameroon probably was a taube as well; most German monoplanes of that period were, and Jeannin certainly made taubes. It is a generic term for machines employing the curving wing-plan, popularly considered to be bird-like, but actually derived from the shape of a gliding seed found in the tropics, and not too dissimilar to the familiar maple seed.

[chrispaulodale]

Thank you all again for the info,
It's very helpful.
One more question about these planes, again it might seem a bit obvious from a non-flight enthusiansts point of view but does anyone know what the seating arrangement would have been in these planes? On some of the planes it seems to be a matter of choice as to take one or two crew. Could two fit in a Taube?
Cheers
Chris

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Chrispaulodale:
From Die deutschen Militärflugzeug 1910-1918; 1914 Otto Doppeldecker
Span, 14900mm; length,10800mm; height, 3600mm. 100 Ps Daimler-Mercedes D.I. Maximum airspeed, 100 k/hr.
This machine was used by the Bavarian forces in the early stages of the war.
Merry Chrstmas,
Dan-San

[Old Man]

Originally Posted by chrispaulodale

Thank you all again for the info,
It's very helpful.
One more question about these planes, again it might seem a bit obvious from a non-flight enthusiansts point of view but does anyone know what the seating arrangement would have been in these planes? On some of the planes it seems to be a matter of choice as to take one or two crew. Could two fit in a Taube?
Cheers
Chris

In tractor machines, with the motor in front, the pilot usually sat in the rear cockpit, and the observer in the forward one. This was universal in B-class biplanes, and in Tauben. In most pusher types of the period that I know of, the pilot sat in the front seat and the observer in the rear one: that was certainly the practice in pre-war Farmans and Voisins. This photograph of an Otto suggests it employed that arrangement:

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/...tto_pusher.jpg

Note the 'horns' for control wires (probably to the elevators) are positioned by the front seat, and these are generally dead-level with the position of the pilot's stick. Note also that the passenger can access the motor, which is one of the reasons for these counter-intuitive seating arrangements, as working on a dud motor in flight was not too infrequent in those days.

Because a man was a goodly proportion of the loaded weight for these early machines, performance was appreciably better, particularly regarding climb and stall, when no passenger was carried. Quicker climb was a great benefit, since the machine had to reach a height where small arms fire was ineffective to operate over enemy territory, and in those days, doing this could take as much as a third of the time the machine could fly before running out of fuel. In tropical regions, since hot air is 'thinner', and cooling arrangements for the motor less efficient, dispensing with the passenger might sometimes have been necessary to get any degree of decent performance, or achieve any altitude greater than a few hundred feet in a reasonable time. Standard German doctrine regarded an officer observer as the aeroplane's commander, and the pilot, generally an enlisted man, as his chauffer. But there were German officer pilots, and in most of the instances you are dealing with, the pilots were officers, and so would have been considered competent to make military observations aloft. Your description of the personnel involved makes no mention of trained observers being sent out, and observers were trained even at that date. It was certainly possible to fly the machine and do a competent job of looking down and taking notes of what you saw, especially when aerial opposition was not really a problem. And, of course, when bombing was essentially an exercise in pitching the things over the side of the cockpit, the weight saved by leaving the passenger behind translated into a weight of weaponry, without degrading performance below normal levels.