Richthofen's Belief In Final Victory?

[Pips]

I've often wondered if von Richthofen, in the final month or so of his life, believed that Germany was finally winning the war.

For most of his aerial career he would have seen the slow but seemingly inexorable drive by the Allies, forcing the German to slowly give way eastwards.

However with the Kaiserschlacht in March '18 he was flying and fighting over a victorious army. First Operation Michael punched a great hole through the British front lines, followed by Operation Georgette and the drive towards the Channel ports. By the time of his death on 21 April the German Army was still forcing it's way west.

So I wonder if Richthofen was buoyed up by the belief that here, finally, Germany was poised on the edge of victory? And so believed that all the efforts of the past, the pain of comrades deaths and personal injury were worth it? And so by his death was spared the disolution of defeat? His scoring rate in the last two months certainly points to a new rejuvenation of spirit.

Or did he see the March offensive as a desperate last gasp by an tied old fighter with his one last breath? A waste of lives and pointless struggle? And so perhaps died a very cynical, dispirited worn fighter simply doing his duty?

I hope it was the former.

[LegendaryLoewenhardt]

'Tis a pity he didn't survive. We might of won the war.

[FliegerJG1]

When the Americans entered the war, Manfred knew that all was lost. His mother writes of his opinions about this in her memoirs. Germany was outnumbered. There was a blockade and they couldn't get oil and fuel and other materials for the aircraft. It was just a matter of time. Manfred had a strong sense of duty so he stuck it out, on the front lines, to the end.

FliegerJG1

[rainbase]

I would have to believe that Manfred knew that defeat was coming for the Fatherland. All in all, he was pretty sharp and would have had access to information beyond the "party line". In addition, it's said he became more grim after his wounding; I suspect this had more to do than simply the headaches. By that Spring of 1918 his command would have begun feeling the effects of the shrinking supply resources.

Of course his memoir would not have suggested defeat in the least; MVR's book was obviously a calculated propaganda stunt. There is the story though, that on his last visit home he was fairly depressed; sitting with his mother and leafing through pictures while commenting on how many of his comrades were no longer living.

[Kilian]

I dont think he had time to think about it. Surely he noticed when things got worse, lack of fuel etc. Maybe in this moments he thought about it when he was not able to get into the air.

PS: You made a double posting. So i will post here also ;o

[rammjaeger]

I think in his mothers book was a sentence with a meaning like "in the best case we get a remis" - So it seems later in his career he was well aware that Germany could not really win the war but in March/April 1918 he fought to use the last little chance and to fullfil his duty.

[REDBARONGIRL]

Originally Posted by Pips

I've often wondered if von Richthofen, in the final month or so of his life, believed that Germany was finally winning the war.

For most of his aerial career he would have seen the slow but seemingly inexorable drive by the Allies, forcing the German to slowly give way eastwards.

However with the Kaiserschlacht in March '18 he was flying and fighting over a victorious army. First Operation Michael punched a great hole through the British front lines, followed by Operation Georgette and the drive towards the Channel ports. By the time of his death on 21 April the German Army was still forcing it's way west.

So I wonder if Richthofen was buoyed up by the belief that here, finally, Germany was poised on the edge of victory? And so believed that all the efforts of the past, the pain of comrades deaths and personal injury were worth it? And so by his death was spared the disolution of defeat? His scoring rate in the last two months certainly points to a new rejuvenation of spirit.

Or did he see the March offensive as a desperate last gasp by an tied old fighter with his one last breath? A waste of lives and pointless struggle? And so perhaps died a very cynical, dispirited worn fighter simply doing his duty?

I hope it was the former.

of course he knew that germany was losing the war,have you ever read that comment he made to his mother one time when he was home on leave?He told her that he didn't beleve that germany would win the war because he told her just how strong the allies were,but as a solider myself,i can tell you this,we NEVER GIVE UP!!No matter how hopeless the sitation we find ourselves in!!Ours is not to wonder why,ours is but to do or die!!We all take risks when we join the military,if we go to war,fine,if we don't,oh well.We also have something called ORDERS that we have to obey,and like a good solider he was,that's what he did,no matter how hopeless,he fought on to the end,and died a hero,someday,we'll get to ask him if it was all worth it,but his answer will probally be yes,what do you think????REDBARONGIRL

[Epee]

I believe that he came to the opinion fairly early on that Germany could not "win" as in marching into Paris and forcing terms onto Britian. But he also seemed to hope that the Spring 1918 Offensive could gain Germany a cease-fire before American forces threw their weight into the fight.

[Roadhog]

In my opinion MvR had to have been plagued with huge doubts concerning Germany's chances of winning the war. However, the roads to the Western Front that he flew over daily were clogged with victorious troops and equipment coming west from Russia. To the south Italy had been neutalized and although Germany's "America Program" to vastly increase aircraft production had clearly failed he had to feel that he and his men stood a real chance of maybe not winning but at least ending the war on favorable terms for the German Empire.

He must have known that the offensives he was engaged in at the time of his death were Germany's last chance at victory before the Americans and the blockade brought his nation to her knees. When he went down, newly developed tactics were carrying the strom troopers and follow on units further and further into enemy territory and I hope for his sake that he did not die seeing himself as a cynical actor in a lost cause.

And finally, as has been alluded to above, a soldier fights for menay things, most important of which are friends, home and honor. Unlike most people caught up in the Great War, MvR must have recognized his unique role in history and and as a national symbol. He and his flyers would have flown against and fought Satan's winged angels themselves if it meant keeping Germany safe. VR, Scott

[Roadhog]

Red Baron Girl's remarks about were all the sacrficies and heart aches experienced in the war worth it reminds me of a cartoon I saw in a history magazine in 1961. It fearured two dirty, skinny, seedy and barefoot Confederate soldiers standing in the pouring rain in front of a wall that had the words "Yankee Go Hoam!" proudly embalzoned on it.

One of the soldiers said to his pal, "Cheer up Zeke! Just think, in a hundred years our explots will be celebrated in song and legend." And you know what? He was right and so is Red Baron Girl. VR, Scott