Jasta 30 Pilots

Uwe · 1 July 2003, 01:36 PM

Hello,

I am doing some research on the history of Jasta 30. I have made decent progress with the help of this site and a couple of other ones but I am missing about 30-40% of their kills by non-ace pilots. I am also missing the location of all of Hans-Georg von der Marwitz’s victories. I have the dates and most of the types of planes he shot down but not their locations.

I have searched to web pretty well and I don’t think I am going to find anymore useful data from it. If anyone can provide me with any information on any Jasta 30 pilots besides Bethge, Bertrab, Oberlander (I still need a picture of him though) and Buddecke (who wasn’t with them for long) I would be deeply appreciative. If possible, I would like to cite the source of the data too as I want to publish this information on a webpage I am creating.

I have tons of other questions too but they would deal more with pictures of Jasta 30 aircraft OTHER than the Pfalz DIII. Any pictures of Jasta 30 Albatri (other than Bertrab’s DIII), Halb DIIIs, or Fokker DVII would also be immensely welcomed.

Thanks,

Uwe

J30_uwe@hotmail.com

P.S. Here is a map of Jasta 30 events I am working on.

http://users.adelphia.net/~proctorll...20activity.jpg

Rick · 1 July 2003, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uwe

I am also missing the location of all of Marwitz’s victories. I have the dates and most of the types of planes he shot down but not their locations.

Uwe, This is the 'cut-down' version. Hope it makes sense. And, hope I typed it all OK! R.

5.1.17, Bouchavesnes; 13.5.17, Ypres; 19.2.18, Marquillies; 16.3, Rochebourg; 12.4, Wambrechiers; 12.4, Aubers; 16.5, Lorques; 9.6, Vieux Berquin; 30.7, W. Merville; 27.8, Tilloy; 29.8, Haplincourt; 22.9, S. Neuve Eglise; 8.10; Gouzeacourt; 27.10, ----. Note, I only have Marwitz credited with 14 confirmed victories, despite what the Aerodrome 'Aces' list says.

2 July 2003, 04:44 AM

Welcome Uwe,

Have you tried The Jasta Pilots by Franks? It is a great source to find victories of non-ace pilots of all the Jasta units. Try Amazon.com for a cheaper used copy, there should be plenty out there.

regards

Uwe · 2 July 2003, 05:51 AM

Thank you Rick! I appreciate the help on Marwitz. Is the location of the last victory unknown?
Edit: The one on 10/27/18.

Wingedwarrior, that is actually the next book I intend to purchase. I just have to been nice for a couple of weeks because I have purchased a few too many books recently. If I buy something now my wife will want to buy something too just because I did and I couldn't say "No" to her since that would be hypocritical of me. I should be clear to do so by July 14th, LOL.

Thanks,

Uwe

Rick · 2 July 2003, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uwe

Is the location of the last victory unknown? The one on 10/27/18.

Yes, at least to me. R.

Uwe · 2 July 2003, 11:59 AM

Thanks Rick. *

Another person has given me the following information:

Quote:

"Train strafing had become a sport amongst the two AFC squadrons in 80 Wing and on July 7th 1918, ten SE5a's of 2 Sqn AFC under the squadron commander Murray Jones took off in the early morning under the cover of mist and an overcast sky with a 2000 foot ceiling for concealment. The flight found a train at Harbourdin, and Murray Jones dropped two bombs on the train while Cole fired his machine guns up its length. Cole then dropped his bombs into the good shed. Later in July on the afternoon of the 17th Cole lead a flight of five aircraft from 2 Sqn over Armentieres and maneuvered his flight into advantage over a patrol of six Fokker Triplanes placing the flight above and to the east of the German aircraft. Cole dived on the leader firing into the aircraft which dropped onto it's back, Stone also started firing into the Triplane and it caught fire, plummeting 17000ft in flames. Above the Trenches names the German pilot as Lieutenant Otto Franke of Jasta 30."

Cole shot down a DR1 on this date. I have also seen this confirmed elsewhere citing Frank's ATL as its source. However, this is the ONLY reference indicating Jasta 30 ever had a Dr1. This would also seem to suggest that Jasta 30 had 6 Dr1s.

Does anyone have any ideas on whether or not J30 ever had any Fokker Dr1s?

Thanks,

Uwe *

Gregvan · 2 July 2003, 01:14 PM

Dear Uwe,

It would really surprise me if Jasta 30 ever had any Dr.I's (let alone six), but I've been surprised before ! I know that several sources match up Franke's loss to Cole's/Stone's claim over a Dr.I, but there are other possibilities. Stephen Lawson had a wardiary-type article on Jasta 30 , including research from Rick Duiven, which appeared in C & C International Vol. 31 No. 2, 2000. In the Duiven/Lawson notes, Franke was actually credited with a Sopwith Dolphin downed at Erquinghem (near Armentieres) at 19.00 hrs on 17 July 1918 (probably C3792, 2/Lt. R.E. White, 19 Sqn, POW) and ten minutes later was killed at the same location by a Sopwith Dolphin (apparently his claim was put in for him by other Jasta members upon thewir return).

Note: Cole/Stone were flying S.E.5a's, which does not in itself point to a match (though a/c recognition on both sides was abysmal). However, The Jasta Pilots by Duiven, Franks and Bailey says Franke fell to ground fire !! So take your pick !

By the way, the aforementioned article by Lawson has some very nice photos of Jasta 30 Albatros D.III's and personnel from the Oskar Seitz album. You can find a photo of a Jasta 30 Fokker D.VII flown by Ltn. August Hartmann of Jasta 30 in "Fokker D.VII Anthology 2" from Ray Rimell's Albatros Productions. It's just my opinion, but I think Jasta 30 started out with Halberstadt D-types and the Albatros D.II, followed by the Albatros D.III and D.V, then the Pfalz D.III and especially D.IIIa, and then transitioned to the Fokker D.VII with the odd Roland D.VIa (Vzfw. Ernst David of the unit was KIA in a Roland D.VIa on 7 August '18, according to Rick Duievn's notes). They still had the Pfalz D.IIIa as late as 27 May '18, when Vzfw. Artur Schiebler was KIA in one. I cannot be sure when they transitioned to the D.VII or if the transition was a complete one.

No doubt Rick, Stephen and Dan-San can add more concrete info.

Greg

Soderbaum · 3 July 2003, 03:48 AM

Hi

The death of Lt Franke is indeed a sad story..!! while circling above the Sopwith-D he had shot down northwest of Erquinghem he was fired upon by German ground mg and died at 19:10...

Uwe, there was a Jasta 30 pilot who wrote a book about his war experience, Lt Otto Fuchs.
He does well describe the "life" within the unit in the summer and early autumn of 1917. However he use pseudonyms for his comrades and locations, so for example Bethge has another name...
The title of the book is "Wir Flieger"

According to rumors I have heard, there is a good possibility that the KTB of Jasta 30 has survived, but I dont knew what person, who have it...

Of special interest is that Lt von der Marwitz was mentioned in the HB(Heeresbericht) for 27 Oct 1918, which announced his 14 victory...
At this stage of the War it was very unusual to be mentioned there if you dont had at least 20 victories...so this must be called some sort of "annerkennung"...!

8)
Gunnar