Forum Attic Item #12

Varese2002 · 3 June 2007, 02:59 AM

Forum Attic Item #12

I found this icy picture of a lot of military men in all sorts of different outfits (and hats) obliterating a fuselage of an aeroplane which has apparently lost its wings or is serviced.

The questions are:

- Where is this picture taken ? [ No not Canada

]

- Who are these men ?

- What is the obliterated machine ?

- In what year are we ?

- Will radiators survive in this icy temperatures ?

I made an appropriate collage of snow etc. around this picture.

Kees

YavorD · 3 June 2007, 03:12 AM

The picture shows Russian airfield, I believe, probably early 1916.
I need to check further about machine but radiator reminds me Canton-Unne (Salmson) engined machines.
Above 10,000 feet temperature is always low, so it is not too much a problem for once engine is running. Radiators should be thoroughly drained after each run and filled with hot water immediately before start of the engine.
Regards,
Yavor

YavorD · 3 June 2007, 03:33 AM

The plane is Farman with 150/160 hp Canton-Unne engine. Possible variants are M.F.11 or H.F.30. Nacele contours and position are similar to M.F.11.
Regards,
Yavor

Varese2002 · 3 June 2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YavorD

The plane is Farman with 150/160 hp Canton-Unne engine. Possible variants are M.F.11 or H.F.30. Nacele contours and position are similar to M.F.11.
Regards,
Yavor

Yavor, the caption of this picture gives that it was taken in 1918 in Siberia and that the men on the picture are 'Whites' (then fighting against the Reds of Lenin and his then comrade Trotzky). [Группа офицеров и нижних чинов одного из «белых» авиаотрядов. Сибирь, 1918].

So in 1918 the Farman pusher biplane was already very old fashioned / obsolete, but in Siberia probably useful.

How do you recognize the cowling as belonging to the Canton-Unne engine? About the exact Farman type, it is given that the H.F.11 (H.F. = Henry Farman) was relatively few employed in the Imperial Russian Air Service. On 1 May 1917, 25 machines were used.

By the way the Henry Farman H.F.27 (also with radiators at the side) was built in great numbers by Duks [Дукс], as was the H.F.30 and H.F.30bis. I am not sure about the form of the nacelle, will have to study more on it.

Kees

YavorD · 4 June 2007, 12:41 AM

Hi Kees,

Farman was very important type in Russia. Russian production by several factories used licence-built Canton-Unne X-9 engines listed as 135 hp, 145 hp, 150 hp, and 160 hp.

I know nothing about H.F.11.
Maurice Farman M.F.11 variant was built in Russia with Canton-Unne engine.
H.F.27 nacelle is placed just over lower wing. M.F.11 and H.F.30/30bis nacelles were positioned between the wings.
As much as I know, H.F.30/30bis nacelle is quite long, much longer than M.F.11.

In my opinion, the plane is Russian built M.F.11, possibly rebuilt/re-engined with Canton-Unne engine.

Regards,
Yavor