Pfalz E1 markings and use.

The info in the Gavia kit claims the E1 was used by Bavarian units for recon and was also used in the Sinai campaign in 1916.

Can anyone answer the following questions for me please?

1) Were the recon aircraft armed or were they unarmed like the original Fokker monoplane (M3?) which was armed to become the Fokker E1?

2) Which units used the E1 and were those units used on the Eastern or Western fronts?

3) Did the aircraft used over Sinai carry the German Iron Cross or the Turkish square?

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by GPCharlwood

The info in the Gavia kit claims the E1 was used by Bavarian units for recon and was also used in the Sinai campaign in 1916.

Can anyone answer the following questions for me please?

1) Were the recon aircraft armed or were they unarmed like the original Fokker monoplane (M3?) which was armed to become the Fokker E1?

All E.I except prototype were armed from the factory.

Originally Posted by GPCharlwood

2) Which units used the E1 and were those units used on the Eastern or Western fronts?

German organization had these machines assigned to two seater units in the beginig then to KEK units designated to escort and protect two seater units and hunt individual combats.

Originally Posted by GPCharlwood

3) Did the aircraft used over Sinai carry the German Iron Cross or the Turkish square?

Iron Cross

[Cigogne]

There were 1 or 2 Pfalz Eindeckers in Palestine, both with Flieger-Abteilung 300 Pascha. Some sources say only 1 was there. I've seen two photographs each showing a Pfalz, and they both differ in appearance leading me to believe that 2 were sent.

The Pfalz A.I-II parasol were used by the Turks in Ottoman Flieger-Abteilung 3 at Medina in Arabia.

[Epee]

Did Pfalz use a different linen than Fokker? Models and illustrations I see depict Fokkers yellowish and Pfalz's off-white.

[Cigogne]

Yes, the finish WAS different. They were described as "snow white" by contemporary German reports, and personnel. Company color advertising posters of the time show them as white finished as well... not beige, buff, or tan. They were very light. They also, because of their black painted edging, were called "Fliegende Todesanzeige" (Flying Obituaries) because of the style of the black borders in the Obituary notices in the German newspapers.

[Taz]

Epee (Do you fence, by the way?)- In all likelihood, the Fokkers you see like that are clear doped linen. The Pfalz Eindeckers were painted white with black borders and details. That is why they make such pretty models. The Fall 06 Over the Front, due out soon, has some great Pfalz E.I/II photos including a photo with one of each plus a CDL Fokker for comparison. If you are not a subscriber, I would advise signing up. The photos alone are worth the price of admission.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Originally Posted by Taz

In all likelihood, the Fokkers you see like that are clear doped linen. The Pfalz Eindeckers were painted white with black borders and details. That is why they make such pretty models.

Taz-- What is the basis for saying that the Pfalz were painted (white)? Like the Moranes, from which they were licensed, they appear to be clear-doped bleached linen, as in the following:

Morane
http://www.thosemagnificentmen.co.uk...ne_G_2_500.jpg

Pfalz
http://skypioneers.kiev.ua/gallery/a.../Pfalz_E-1.jpg

http://skypioneers.kiev.ua/gallery/a...-E1-458-15.jpg

http://skypioneers.kiev.ua/gallery/a...falz%20E_4.jpg

It is actually for this reason that these aircraft are difficult to model.

The black borders are also not painted, at least on Moranes, but are fabric (reinforcing?/decorative) tapes.

Just one man's opinion,
A-h

PS. As an aside, I find that Fokker Eindeckers don't look at all like they are simply clear-doped, and perhaps not of the same high-quality bleached linen. Contemporary French reports refer to "beige," which is a near-equivalent to "unbleached linen."

[Taz]

Air-hed- I carefully went and looked at a dozen or so original photos I have of the Pfalz Eindeckers and convinced myself the color was simply too white to be just bleached fabric. I believe the dope used must have had white pigments in it to give such a pure white color. Maybe painted was too strong a word, especially considering the relative transparency of the finished fabric on the structure. Whatever tapes were used as borders, and quite a bit of other metal trim and pieces, were painted or dyed black.

What color do you think early Fokker Eindeckers were? Some Eindeckers had a dark finish, but most photos I have of light colored Eindeckers show clear signs of being CDL on tan linen. There may be a few which were light blue or light green, but the light blue Fokker used would make the finish opaque, just like it did on the Halberstadt D.IIs. One of the ways you can tell whether a Halberstadt is CDL or light blue is to check for opaqueness of finish. Should work for the Eindecker as well.

Taz
Terry Phillips

http://aaaa.fr.eu.org/susana/Patchwo...ane_N_1914.jpg

Taz--
If white pigment -- which presumably would have been zinc oxide, as in the Fokker Dr.I materials list, or perhaps white lead, the traditional pigment for oil colors -- were added to the dope, by definition this would create an opaque white surface. However, as the scans I have linked show, when transilluminated, the Moranes and the Pfalz are translucent, and therefore can hardly have an opaque color coat. However,when viewed with strong light reflecting off their high-quality (high thread-count?) bleached linen under multiple coats of dope, this translucency is obscured.

I have done extensive research into pre-war Moranes, and as noted in a report from one of the last of the Paris aviation salons, these aircraft were remarked on for their superb finish -- snow white bleached linen and exquisite enamled (japaned) metalwork, i.e., cowlings, undercarriage. Nonetheless, it is clear from images of these machines taken under conditions where fabric surfaces, notably wings, are transilluminated, that they are indeed clear-doped, not doped with an opaque color coat.

The pre-war license-built Pfalz carried on this level of quality production (very probably as a contractual requirement), and apparently continued into the beginning of the war. The black wing outlining and fuselage tapes are analagous to the tapes applied by Nieuport, as well as the wing leading-edge tapes applied to the Fokker Dr.I or Albatros D.III, etc.

(Speaking of Fokker, one sees in the images of their prototypes -- A series, Dr.I -- a very similar appearance: bright white fabric surfaces that are translucent and show the inner sstructure under the appropriate lighting conditions.)

I would be most interested if you would post a scan of an image that you find convincing for Fok. E series CDL finish. I have done a lot of looking at published and unpublished images, and although under reflected light conditions some, few, airframes appear fairly light, the great majority tend toward a mid-gray. Even the "light" ones never approach the appearance of the Fok. prototypes (or the Moranes or Pfalz) alluded to above. I believe that you could well be right that some -- or perhaps even many -- were finished in the blue or, more likely, yellow "Sky" scheme. Indeed, I think that the use of a (semi?)opaque top coat, particularly yellow, would explain the range of tones imaged by different period films.

The main thing for me are the French reports referencing "beige" as the color of the Eindeckers they encountered. In the absence of other information, this is the documentary record, and the rest speculative.

Best,
A-h
A-h

[StephenLawson]

Hey Taz;
While The Pfalz E. I - VI production airframes (except the Pfalz E.III types)used bleached linen (almost white) from the factory there was that nasty rotary exhaust that front line units had to deal with. For those of you not familar with the problem this castor oil exhaust had to be scrapped or sanded off the airframe after each flight. I have been studying portions of the wing roots near the fuselage and the fuselages themselves. In the field, not only was plywood added to the external portions of the vertical fuselage sides (painted black) but portions of the fuselage and wing root areas ( usually two bays out from the root.) were painted white. Especially on the undersurface of the wing. The battens remained black as well. By the way I found a fellow who is building an 80% sized ulralight Pfalz E.I. Knowing your penchant for the bizzare I thought you migh find this unique. I'll PM you the URL.