That Zeppelin Scene...

Gregvan · 23 September 2006, 05:58 PM

Hi All,

Some commentators on other sites, in criticizing "Flyboys", have commented how unlikely it is that a Zeppelin would be making a daylight raid over the Western Front circa 1916-17, and being attacked by a squadron of Nieuports. I agree that that scene, visually exhilarating and exciting, is a bit far-fetched (especially the Zepp being escorted by a Jasta of red Triplanes - but it looks cool). However, there IS a historical precedent (though it didn't involve N.124)...

On the night of 19-20 October 1917, The German Navy launched 11 airships in what would be the last great Zepp raid of WWI. Nearly all the Zepps became lost in a high-altitude gale, and a spectacular catastrophe resulted - five out of the 11 failed to return.

Dawn of the 20th found the L 44 hopelessly lost in its attempt to return home, and over Lorraine 40 miles inside the French lines. As it tried to climb to 19,000 feet, French anti-aircraft guns opened up and the Zeppelin fell in flames.

The demise of L 44 was witnessed by the distraught crew of Zeppelin L 49, which had only 2 engines still running. Hopelessly lost, with a crew suffering from altitude sickness, the commander, Kapitanltn. Gayer, brought the ship down to 6500 feet to get himself oriented (he thought he was over Holland).

Unfortunately for Gayer, he was over the Western Front. Shortly after 6:00 AM Lt. Lefevre of Escadrille N.152 ("The Crocodiles") received a message reporting that a Zeppelin had been sighted over Espinal, going north.He immediately sent Lt. Lefargue to take his Nieuport up above the low and thick bank of fog with hid the sky from view. Lefargue returned at 6:45 and reported that the fog was thick up to 800 meters, but the sky was clear above that and he had sighted two Zepps.

Immediately five Nieuports, including those of Lt Lefargue and Lefevre, scrambled to intercept the Zepps (not unlike the scene in Flyboys). When the patrol reached 5300 meters, they found themselves higher than the Zepps, and attacked the L 49 at 08.30 hrs. The L 49 headed down, and the Nieuports followed but held their fire as long as the ship was descending. Whenever the Zepp tried to ascend, the Nieuports would buzz in and fire at her side. Eventually at 1,000 meters (according to Lefevre) the Zepp hoisted the white flag. Gayer brought the L 49 down near Bourbonne-les-Bains. The entire crew survived and stumbled out of the gondolas. Gayer attempted to set his ship on fire but failed before he was taken prisoner. The Zepp broke its back across a hill, and became the subject of numerous photos and even (I think) some movie footage. Lefevre landed nearby and Gayer surrendered himself and his crew to the French commander.

One member of N.152, Cpl. Denis, also attacked the L 50 but was reportedly caught under the violent fire of their defensive guns and forced to retreat. Nonetheless, the commander of L 50 was convinced he could not return to Germany with only 3 functioning engines. He deliberately dove his Zepp into the ground at Dammartin, trying to destroy it. The forward gondola was torn off, and sixteen of the Zepp's crew landed in the gondola or jumped safely to the ground. The battered hulk of the L 50 sailed off into the wind with four crewmen still aboard. It drifted southward, and was lost by following French fighters over the Mediterranean. It was never seen again.

While not as dramatic as the end of the Zepp in "Flyboys", the fate of L 49 at least shows that the spectacle of a Zeppelin being harassed by French Nieuports in daylight is not as far-fetched as it might seem (I always thought it would make a great painting - Russ?). However, despite dramatic episodes in both "Hell's Angels" and "Flyboys", there is no record of any Allied pilot ever diving his aeroplane kamikaze-style into a Zeppelin!

Greg VanWyngarden

FlyXwire · 23 September 2006, 06:08 PM

Thanks Greg for your historical Zeppelin illumination (no pun intended).

Great stuff....all around!

reservepilot · 23 September 2006, 06:22 PM

After seeing that Zeppelin scene during the movie for the second time, I have become less critical of it. I went so far as to take that criticism out of my earlier comment which I posted after seeing the movie last night. But the 90 degree triplane "wip turns"...well....that's still a problem for me.

Still, it is a great movie!

George

MrSmith · 23 September 2006, 06:24 PM

That was really interesting to read thanks

Bruno Stachel · 23 September 2006, 07:25 PM

I can't remember this detail very well. Wasn't Paris visible in the background at the beginning of the scene? I'm not nitpicking the film, but I wondered where the German lines where at that time, and if the DR1's could have escorted the Zeppelin that far?

And thanks Greg. Interesting post. I just read an article about the Shenandoah's crash in 1925. Between that and this discussion, I think you've put me over the top on wanting to explore the topic some more.

Gregvan · 23 September 2006, 08:22 PM

Hi,

Bruno Stachel, it's interesting you should mention the Shenandoah in this context. According to the late Dr. Douglas Robinson (THE Zeppelin expert): "L 49 was dismantled by her captors, but not before her design had been copied and distributed to all the Allied powers. This set of drawings, together with details obtained from study of L 72 after the war, formed the basis for the design of America's first rigid airship, the "Shenandoah".

Odd little connection, there.

Greg

Tom L. · 23 September 2006, 09:41 PM

So...the wreck of L50 is out there, waiting to be found?

*Imagines Zeppelin wreckage complete with fabric lying in the Sahara somewhere*

josef scott · 23 September 2006, 11:43 PM

Greg,

That's an awesome story. Makes me feel much better about that scene. I was sittiing there in the theatre telling my wife "Naw, nothing like that ever happened"!

Just wondering: with your gift for making real history jump off the page, have you ever written or considered writing any fiction, or a screen-play?

Ginger. · 24 September 2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josef scott

Greg, writing any fiction?

He already has... Osprey's Fokker Tripehound Aces of WW1...

StephenLawson · 24 September 2006, 05:05 AM

Now, now Ginger old bean...you are just upsetting yourself. He had a bad run in with one of the Baron's Kette over the salient several weeks back. They shot his wings off...again. I have one of his cockades as an umbrella covering. Rumor has it that Ginger's got his-self a closet with the back wall covered in Sanke cards of German aces...Coming out are you Ginger?!
Nuthin but luv 4 U, Regards
Red Leader One