Fokker Dr 1 in Jasta 15/18 (Raben)

[DeltaK]

Gentlemen, yesterday I did some research to get a more detailed picture of the Jasta 15/18 exchange. Using the search engine, I found this excellent thread answering almost all my questions.
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...ht=JASTA+RABEN
But there is one confusing issue left for me. From the a.m. thread I conclude, that there have been red-white Raben scheme Dr1s in Js 18 (Raben), which must have been flying in May 18 or later,

Oth, I found the following in Osprey's "Fokker Dr 1 Aces of WW I", page 79:
>>Müller and Monnington briefly flew DR Is from the Jasta 15 field at Autremencourt in early March, but did not have time to attain any victories on the type. The unit was forced to relinquish its few Dr1s when the great 'switch' took place........<< This means for me: No Dr1s in Jasta Raben after April 18.

Maybe I am still mixing things up, but for the time being this sounds contradictory to me.

Best Regards from Germany

DK

[Gregvan]

Dear DeltaK,

In my defense, I shall quote Alex Imrie's "The Fokker Triplane" (Arms & Armour Press, 1992), with my emphasis added, page 67: "The change of designations Jasta 15/18 took place on Guise aerodrome in the XVIII Armee area, whence JG II had moved on 19 March. The old Jasta 15 gave up the few triplanes it had on charge and moved to Bruille aerodrome, east of Douai in the XVII Armee area, where it was equipped with the Albatros D Va and Pfalz D IIIa. It was still considered to be a stationary-engined Jasta, as only a few pilots had actually converted to the triplane before the change mentioned took place. As a result, this unit did not obtain any operational successes on the Fokker Dr I before relinquishing the type on leaving JG II."

Then, on page 83, in the caption to the well-known line-up photo of Raben's Dr.I at the head of a line of Albatros and Pfalz: "The original Jasta 15 had been compelled to give up its triplanes when it was redesignated Jasta18 and left JG II. However, the triplanes had been popular with the pilots, and although now flying Albatros D Va's and Pfalz D IIIs they still hoped for triplane equipment. But it would seem that only the Staffelfuehrer, Leutnant August Raben, was successful; he managed to acquire 479/17 (Works No 2105) for his personal use. The Jasta 18 unit marking consisted of forward fuselage (and usually wing upper surfaces) painted in red, with rear fuselages and tail units in white, with a black raven symbolizing Raben's name (Rabe-ravens) carried immediately aft of the vertical colour division. Raben himself used a white raven for personal identification and marked this forward of the colour demarcation line, but this had yet to be applied to 479/17, seen here with Albatros D Va's probably at Faches near Lille in late April 1918."

Thus, it seems that Raben was able to obtain his Dr I 479/17 after the big Jasta 15/18 switch. It's my opinion that this was the ONLY triplane on the strength of Jasta 18 after the personnel switch.

[DeltaK]

Greg,

thanks for the quick reply, the comprehensive background information, and the explanation.

Finally I proved that your books are not only bought for the nice profiles but also for reading. I look forward to get my copy of your Pfalz Book. Unfortunately I do not know any distributor in Germany yet, but Amazon Germany cooperates with Amazon UK on these books. It just takes time.

DK

[Jos]

Hallo Delta K,


Versuch mal http://www.bol.de


Jos

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Greg:
I am not sure about this, my understanding is, the two Staffelführern, exchanged the their war diaries and designations, but, retaining all personel and equipment, this way they did not repaint their machines. Exchanging equipment and personnel does not make sense. It was no more than a paper exchange. Think about what was about to take place, "Operation Michael".
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[DeltaK]

Originally Posted by Jos

Hallo Delta K,


Versuch mal http://www.bol.de


Jos

Danke Jos!

Ist mit 3 Wochen Lieferzeit aber auch kein Expressdiensr!

[Dan_San_Abbott]

DeltaK:
On 28 August 1918, Off.Stv. Wilhelm K&#252;hne attacked an Observation Balloon was shot down by the gunners of the 6th Balloon Company. He was wounded in the unsuccessful attack,and landed within German Lines. He was Flying a Fok.DR.I. So it appears Jasta 18 had more than the one flown by Ltn.August Raben.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[CWatson]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

DeltaK:
On 28 August 1918, Off.Stv. Wilhelm Kühne attacked an Observation Balloon was shot down by the gunners of the 6th Balloon Company. He was wounded in the unsuccessful attack,and landed within German Lines. He was Flying a Fok.DR.I. So it appears Jasta 18 had more than the one flown by Ltn.August Raben.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Dan San,

Is it known if this plane was painted in Jasta 18's red and white colors?

CW

[DeltaK]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

DeltaK:
On 28 August 1918, Off.Stv. Wilhelm Kühne attacked an Observation Balloon was shot down by the gunners of the 6th Balloon Company. He was wounded in the unsuccessful attack,and landed within German Lines. He was Flying a Fok.DR.I. So it appears Jasta 18 had more than the one flown by Ltn.August Raben.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Dan-San,

Danke...errr....Thank you!

[Taz]

Greg, Dan-San- Raben's use of Dr.I 479/17, WN 2105 is well documented. Post war the French tested Dr.I 581/17 WN 2251 which was in August Raben's full colors when turned in by Jasta 18. Is it possible Off.Stv. Wilhelm Kühne was flying Raben's 479/17 when shot down and Raben obtained 581/17 as a replacement? Kühne had a run of really bad luck. After scoring 9 victories he was shot down and wounded on 28 August and shot down and killed on 30 August. Jasta 18 definitely had another Dr.I assigned when the war ended.

Taz
Terry Phillips