RFC training casualties

Hello,

I've been reading the very interesting article by Michael Skeet on RFC pilot training on this website. Since his last activity was nearly two years ago I have little hope of getting a query answered directly, but wondered if anyone here might be able to help.

He writes:

There could be upwards of two dozen crashes per day at each airfield when flying was going on at full pace; this led to a steady hemorrhage of cadets; on average, one trainee pilot died each day in the UK before Gosport, and several others were seriously injured. In a typical day (21 October 1917), C.H. Andrews recorded 17 crashes at his training squadron. One cadet was killed and five were injured seriously enough to be sent to hospital. And this was in Canada, which had a much better safety record than did Britain; 129 cadets died in Canada compared with over 8,000 in Britain...

8,000 UK deaths (which seems a monstrous figure) equates to an average of much more than 1 fatality per day. Does he mean 800? Does anyone have reliable statistics for this area?

Many thanks,

Skip

[DEM]

According to the book The First of the Few by Denis Winter, the figure 8,000 is correct. He writes:

"Put statistically, official figures at the end of the war listed 14,166 dead pilots, of whom 8,000 had died while training in the UK. In other words more pilots died training at home than were killed by the enemy, a remarkable state of affairs which even reached the ears of Parliament. On 20 June 1918 the Secretary of State was asked for an explanation. His answer naturally put the blame on the pilots themselves, since 'discipline after all was not the pre-eminent quality of youth.'"


In the book 'Billy Bishop: Canadian Hero,' the author notes Bishop was judged ready to solo after just three hours flying time, and received his wings after less than 20 hours. He then writes:

"Such limited preparation sems preposterous today, and perhaps it explains why fatal crashes were an everyday occurrence at Britsh flght schools. Indeed, while 6,000 aviators were killed in combnat with the German Air Force betweeen 1914 and 1918, a shocking 8,000 more were destined to die in England while they learned how to fly."

Describing his training in a letter home, Bishop made it clear there were plenty of crahes. He wrote:

"Yesterday I had 3 forced landings, 2 of which I managed to get into the aerodrome, but the last one I crashed on the side of a hill."

He adds: "Last night we had a boy killed here and another this morning. I saw them both, perfectly ghastly sights."

Thanks very much DEM. In that case, unless I've missed something very obvious, the average death toll of trainee pilots must have been much nearer 6 or 7 per day, rather than one.

I suppose the figures would include those who died from illness. I wonder if the influenza outbreak in 1918, which killed more than 200,00 in Britain, had any impact on these figures. Another theory off the top of my head, perhaps the average of one per day is for 'killed', and does not include 'died from wounds'.

It is an incredible situation. Still, I suppose if today it suddenly became vital to wage war in Formula One motorcars with no breaks, and it was necessary to expand the number of drivers tenfold almost overnight, something similar might happen. (Given a healthy Edwardian disregard for health and safety regulations, of course.)

[DEM]

Part of the problem may have been the attitude of the authorities. Denis Winter notes German training deaths were only about a quarter of front line losses.

Winter doesn't go into the reason for the better German record. Maybe it was because the Germans had better planes, or better discipline. But I suspect the real reason is that they were outnumbered and knew they couldn't afford such wastage. Maybe the British upper classes were a little disdainful of the ordinary people in the armed forces and weren't overly concerned about the deaths of so many 'working class' men.

[Simba]

Interesting post, Skip.

The 8,000 figure is correct-ish; I suspect any 'rounded-off' figures like this, but it's not far off. A disproportionate percentage of those accidents occured in the first three years of the conflict.

There was no standardised primary or basic pilot training until the establishment of the RFC School of Special Flying at RAF Grange, Gosport, Hampshire in 1917. Founder of the school, the great Smith-Barry, introduced the method of training that has been used ever since to teach proper control of aircraft, vehicles, machinery, you name it: brief the trainee properly on what he's about to do; place the trainee in charge of his own destiny - the instructor being there only to intervene as a last resort if the trainee makes a total cock-up - and get him to do it; fully debrief the trainee after the exercise's completion. Every makee-learnee air pilot and would-be car driver is taught this way now - but it was revolutionary then.

And the Avro 504 became one of the great training aeroplanes (the K variant in particular, the first of which was converted from a J in the School's workshop in 1917).

And the Alverbank Hotel at Stokes Bay in Gosport eventually became a favoured drinking hole of this ol' cat many years after Smith-Barry's instructors ceased using it as a Mess - but that's another story.

Cheers!

[Vin]

Originally Posted by DEM

Maybe the British upper classes were a little disdainful of the ordinary people in the armed forces and weren't overly concerned about the deaths of so many 'working class' men.

A good proportion of recruits into the RFC would have been from that same class. In a war with the mass loss, didn't 60,000 die on one day on the Somme ?, 8,000 over 4 years isn't that bad.

[rammjaeger]

8,000 had died while training in the UK.

It does not mean all died in flying accidents!

Surely the majority died in flights and training accidents but

others died in training accidents on the ground

and many died due to illness (e.g. influenza).

Also Vins remark seems to be misleading because you have to compare the total number of flying personnel in WWI with the losses of training personnel and not with losses of an millions of men - army. That makes no sense at all.

As well I think the men with a workers background served especially as "men in black" on the ground and had a much higher survival rate in aviation than anywhere else in frontline service! In general they did survive but not their flying officers and NCO!

I am shure the flying personnel in the UK was dominated by higher educated and richer parts of the society. Only with increasing losses the number of working class aviators did increase too.

[retread]

The RFC's, RAF's stance of aggressiveness is well known and certainly included their training. Aviation was in its infancy and it was a "learn by doing" scenario. Grit if not a bit of pigheadeness was expected and required.Aviation knowledge, safety procedures and the luxury of time did not exsist- although the former two were being acquired at the lives of young pilots.
Certainly this situation extended to the other combatant nations if not to the same extent. Americans training in Malpensa Italy in the summer of 1918 saw fourty Italian pilots killed while training within a month.
Without attempting to evolve this thread into an exercise in class warfare in all fairness I am sure the upper classes of all the major nations involved in the war suffered as much proportionally, if not more,than lower or middle classes. At least as regards combat casualties. This was the era of "noblesse oblige" and the upper class was expected to lead by example. "Once more into the breach" meant , for the upper class, you led the way.
Although I cannot at this moment find the numbers if I am not mistaken the American pilot causualties suffered in training exceeded those lost in combat. I suppose how many of these died while training in the UK would have to be considered. Likewise Empire pilots trained in the U.S.- how many of these were lost?

[Grovetown]

Originally Posted by Vin

didn't 60,000 die on one day on the Somme?

Not quite Vin. Total losses for the 1st of July were 60,000 - killed, wounded, captured and missing. Most recent reckonings put the number killed at around 19,000. (Still pretty horrendous admittedly).

Best wishes,

Grovetown.

[retread]

From the book Hostile Skies by James Hudson. As regards American pilots , 164 were killed in action. Two hundred aviators missing in action, (whether this includes the 102 captured I do not know). Killed in accidents, training or otherwise - 319.