Fokker and M.A.G., source data

Dave_Watts · 3 May 2006, 01:06 AM

Hi all,

Here is some data that may be of interest for those who want source information on deliveries of aircraft and parts from Schwerin to Mathyasföld - Budapest. This is where the "experts" come up with those dates that make you scratch your head thinking, how did they know that?

Here is a summary list that was made up after the war when Fokker was in Holland. Instead of explaining, I'll let you guys tell me what you see.

Next we have a list of shipping dates, railroad cars (Waggon), and contents. It appears the list was made in late October, 1918. Note the 7 D.VIs sent on August 27th, the following sheet will correlate.

Here is the bill for the D.VIs shipped above.

Oops...the date got clipped off of the left side on this last sheet. It comes immediately before the listings and is "Aug. 27.".

more to follow...

Best,
Dave W.

Dave_Watts · 3 May 2006, 01:38 AM

continued...

Here is a listing of dates, rail cars and contents made in Schwerin on February 16th, 1918. I had to break it into two parts as it was too large to scan in one go. Note the first rail car listing for the next sheet posted.

As mentioned, notice the first railroad wagen car listed above...it is 41458. The following is the actual railroad dispatch for that particular wagen.

Of note are the commision numbers at the top of the dispatch sheet.

more to come...

Best,
Dave W.

Dave_Watts · 3 May 2006, 01:53 AM

continued...

Here is a list of D.VIIs shipped on October 29th, 1918. Note memo to Hern. Seekatz at top of page.

and the second page;

more to come...

Best,
Dave W.

Dave_Watts · 3 May 2006, 02:07 AM

continued...

Here is a bill summary drawn up on July 5th, 1921. Of interest, the bill is in Gold Marks which I've been told were worth quite a bit more than later normal marks. Confirmation or further explaination would be appreciated.

and the summary sheet;

more to come...

Best,
Dave W.

Dave_Watts · 3 May 2006, 02:22 AM

last installment.

Here is a list of goodies any collector or replica builder would love to have delivered to his home.

I think we can assume the Austro-Daimler Motor Nr.23165 was with the V.22. I'll have to check that to make sure.

Enjoy!

I hope this was of interest.

Best,
Dave W.

Colin A Owers · 3 May 2006, 03:58 AM

Great Stuff. The more of original data that can now be easily copied with a digital camera and let loose "out there" the more we will have the different bits and pieces coming together so that we can get a better idea of the true picture.

I wish I had a digital camera years ago. When I think of the documents that I could not decide whether to take notes, photo copy or just skip! Now, copy the lot, bring them back home and read at my leisure.

Thanks for a brilliant piece of work.

Colin A Owers

Taz · 3 May 2006, 10:37 AM

Dave- Great work. Digitize all the data and photographs we can find and eventually everybody can have access. Once digitized properly, the originals can be preserved without having to be handled and damaged or stolen.

Taz
Terry Phillips

AchimEngels · 3 May 2006, 12:03 PM

That´s the goal!

Thanks Dave!

Cheers!

Achim

Laserlloyd · 3 May 2006, 06:06 PM

Dave Watts:

I have ask before that we share are documents so that we all can learn and preserve this history that we all love. Because of personal and finical reasons it is VARY rare that someone would give us a gift like this.

Thank you so much for sharing this with us. You are the historian of the month.....

I now have something I can try to translate…

There are two listings for “Dreidecker per” is this in reference to the weight of two DR.I’s?

Lloyd...

Dave_Watts · 4 May 2006, 01:13 AM

Hi all,

Thank you very much for the good words. While I was posting this stuff I thought to myself, "is anybody really interested in this stuff?". Sometimes you think there are only three people that may be interested, and this stuff is really fringe at best, so again thanks for the support.

I have always wanted to see the source material on things. I'd be reading an article and think to myself, "how do they know these are the facts?". I'd rather see the source information and have the author's "story" so I can judge for myself. So often there is additional information in these documents that may not mean anything to the author, but to someone else it means a great deal. Like when I cited those Fokker commission numbers on the top of that railroad dispatch sheet. These Idflieg/Armee Kommission numbers come up and I think they are often overlooked. I'd love to find the Idflieg Kommission books. That's why these materials need to be shared.

As Taz (Terry) alluded to, there is also the possibility that original documents can be destroyed, lost, or stolen. I've had it happen, more often than not, photographs I've found at an archive are now missing, more likely than not, stolen.

Colin touches on a good point of the ability we have today versus ten years ago in scanning, digital photography, computers, etc. is amazing. (Colin these documents were simply done with a Xerox, but I'm able to share them today by digital scanning!) So often I've seen materials and images that I was dying to have copies of but it wasn't possible for one reason or another. Just as well in sharing materials, we can now scan an image and post it on the Internet and have thousands of people have access to it in minutes. The same goes with studying photographs; now one can have a scan made at a very high dpi and see more detail than one can make out with a loop or as Alex Imrie showed me, with two loops stacked on top of each other! Ten years ago you could only make a Xerox and that was useless to magnify any detail from. You know it makes you think that the next generation of "Journals and Magazines" will be in a digital format on the Internet. The photographs could be of a much better quality than that of a published format. I am not up to speed on the digital format front like perhaps Achim, but I imagine there may be a way to index these file format publications so as to put them in your database so you could access these materials with a search; for example, say you wanted Fokker D.VII information or only Fokker D.VII images and you would have a list of the images and perhaps thumbnail photographs display on your monitor. Maybe I'm dreaming here, but it sounds logical to me and I'm sure a lot cheaper than publishing and mailing magazines all over the world. Maybe I should start a thread on this!

Laserlloyd, (Lloyd), I'm glad you asked this as you really asked two questions. The “Dreidecker per” you refer to as listed two times is actually listed one time. Look again at the document...I had to scan the page in two goes so I've accidently re-scanned overlapping information in the two scans. Notice how the number listings on this document go from 1 - 13, but if you look closely I've duplicated listings 2 - 5 so you see two listings for the “Dreidecker per” when it actually is one listing under item #4. The listing is for the price of the triplane; 26,000 Marks or as I understand "Gold Marks", probably when Germany was still on the gold standard backing of their currency.

I'll see if I can modify these scans so there is not so much overlapping duplication and inherent confusion.

Hey! I was successful in modifying the posted scans so they read correctly from lead-off/cut-off to lead-in/cut-in. They should read fine and make sense the next time you visit this thread or hit refresh if your computer holds the old images.

By the way the Austro-Daimler motor sent separately was not for the V.22. As can be seen from the first document I have posted, the V.22 had motor number #19245, whereas the later motor is number #23165.

Very best,
Dave W.