Please Advise - Information on Baron Von Richthofen

[A Potts]

Hello,

I got a link to this site from Wikipedia, regarding the death of Baron Von Richthoven. I may have some information that may be of historical interest.

Reading about him recently, I was quite surprised to find so much controversy regarding his death. I may be able to add a little more information regarding his death.

This is my story; make what you will of it.

My name is Aaron Potts and I am a 28 year old Lawyer from Brisbane, Australia. My mother used to work at the Greenslopes Veterans hospital as a veteran’s phycologist.

After school, when no one else would look after me, I would spend many hours hanging around the hospital and the wards. Many of the old diggers ‘soldiers’ would delight in having a young kid to talk to.

I was obsessed with war and would tell them about my grandfathers & great grandfathers in the war and usually ask, as a kid would, 'what they did?'

I fondly remember talking to these guys, but one conversation in particular sticks in my mind.

It happened about probably '87 or '88 at the Brisbane Greenslopes hospital, I was about 9 years old.

I was annoying my mother and she said I should probably go annoy someone else. Nearby, was an old First World War veteran. He was lying on his bed and I said hello. He said hello and asked me to get him something and I started to have a quick chat.

He told me he fought in the First World War and asked something along the lines of ‘what did you do?’

Then he said to me, 'You know what, I reckon I shot down the red baron'.

The red baron to me at 9 years old would have meant a Snoopy Cartoon and my father saying that he was the 'best fighter pilot was ever'.

I said 'Really! What happened?'

He then enthusiastically, told me what happen on that day. His story (as I remember it) goes something like this.

He was a young Private in the Australian Army. I distinctly remember he told me that he had been quite ill. I am not sure if he said he had been to hospital and was coming back to the trenches; but he said he was not quite sick enough to be in hospital and at the same time not quite well enough to be back in the front line.

He stated that the policy of the army was for men in his condition, was to go to a 'reserve or supply trench'. There his job was to do odd jobs for the brass ‘officers’, behind the front line. He said he had to 'polish their boots and stuff'. I can't remember if the officers were English or Australian, but even 70 years later he was still resentful that he had to do it.

On that day, he was doing his chores outside the officer's quarters. He heard planes overhead in the distance and gun fire. He said that it was still quite far away. Then he heard the plane starting coming in his direction. He peered in its direction and it was a red biplane, he specifically stated that he did not know at the time who (meaning the Red Baron) the pilot was, but he knew he must be 'bloody important'.

The plane was quite low and he thought he was in a good position to take a 'pot shot'. He quickly reached for his 303 rifle and loaded it.

I still remember him in the hospital bed and lifting his arms as if he was still taking that shot at the plane. The plane he said almost came directly over him. He said he got away ‘one good shot', almost as the plane was above him and was sure he scored a hit the plane. He reloaded, but by then the plane had already gone.

I think he said he followed it and saw it go down in the distance. I think also that another soldier was with him and saw what he did, but later died in action.

The thing that really annoyed him was when he found out that it was the Red Baron who had been shot down, he wanted to get his story across. The officers he was with thought he was ‘pulling their leg’ and when he got back to the front a few days later, apparently ‘every bastard in the army was saying they shot him down’.

He was widely ignored and nobody in the army really took him seriously. He stopped thinking about it, as ‘he still had a war to fight’.

He said that his claims were met with disbelief and ridicule after the war and he was never taken seriously, which I think had made him bitter and reluctant to recount his story.

Anyway, afterwards, I was so amazed that I asked for his autograph. Guess what he gave it to me and I still have it somewhere. I remember him as ‘Jack’.

‘Jack’ died shortly afterwards (a few weeks later I think of old age). When I was teenager I was told that it was the Canadian Pilot that shot killed the Red Baron, I only recently found out that this is not strictly correct; indeed the more reasoned opinion seem to conclude that he was downed by ground fire.

I could probably find out exactly who ‘Jack’ was. It may be of some interest and if someone wanted to investigate it. I’m sure some of his story could be cross checked. Also he must still have some family left, who would have been told much more than me, I am sure that they could be contacted.

I appreciate that it could just be an old man trying to make up a great story for a young kid. However, I will say this, I believed him.


The point to the above story is that I want to at least pass the story on to someone who is an expert in the field. Who should I contact??

I thought that maybe I should contact the Australian War Memorial (I’m not sure if they would be interested or that effective – big government department etc.) or possibly an author with a special interest in the subject. The only contemporary author seems to be a fellow called ‘Norman Franks’. I am not sure I know how to get in contact with him; it would seem I will have to go through his publisher.

Would you recommend anyone else? Also, if so, how would I contact them?

Lastly, this story is presented in good faith and is from the memory of me as a young boy. If you feel it is a load of rubbish, I would appreciate that you show at least some respect.

Serious responses should contact me on apottsy@hotmail.com or post on the board.

With Kind Regards,

Aaron Potts
Brisbane, Australia

[RAGIII]

I don't know if this will help regards your story but here is my opinion. Probably every Aussie stationed in that area shot at and thought they got the Baron. He may have been genuine in his belief, but odds are it was a machine gunner in the AA batteries nearby. ( Conspiracy theories eliminated) On the other hand who really knows?
RAGIII

[StephenLawson]

Greetings Mr. Potts,

First let me thank you for your detailed and well constructed read. It is after all exactly what the Aerodrome is all about. I trust this a faithful retelling of the memories provided by a 1918 veteran as you say in good faith. You have verified one unique piece of history from the view point of a "digger of the first order" an eye witness account. Thanks ever so much for the telling.

Regards StephenLawson

[Red Baroness]

Thanks for sharing that!

The only problem I would see with the story is the fact that Manfred flew a triplane, not a biplane, in 1918.

But I'm sure that every digger had a story about how they shot down "the Red Baron."

Perhaps there is a nugget of truth, perhaps there is not. At any rate, thank you for sharing that story.

[Executioner128]

As said before, very interesting and many thanks to you for sharing it.

Discovering whether it was the truth or not is a hopeless task I'm afraid !

[Skippy]

Oh, for Christ's sake!

[Pat Daily]

It is amusing to me that we are all so reluctant to take a fresh look at how things happen and what we believe. My background is molecular biology, and I remember when Howard Temin tried to publish a paper (late 60s I think) about RNA viruses replicating and no scientific journal would accept it because no one believed it--dogma was only DNA could be involved in replication. Later he won the Nobel for his work. Today, many RNA viruses (HIV for one) have been identified.

This story about MVR should not be dismissed so easily -- it ought to be studied and added to the folklore and knowledge that we have. Private Jack may have been the Giant killer after all.

Pat

[Fritz Kempf]

If Jack can be placed some where in the flight path before he went down than it is possible that he could have been the “lucky shooter”; because that’s all it was, a lucky shot! The ONE built could have just as easily came from a rifle as a machine gun, there is really know way to prove this and to dismiss it out right just because you have some other preconceived notion makes you a “snob en fest”(sic) as they said in the Blue Max. The poster is looking for useful information, not useless remarks.
Can you place Pvt. Jack on that morning?
Did the Baron fly that far behind the lines as described in the story?
Answers to these questions would be helpful input, to come and flame the poster or the Pvt. With out using some sort of historical information and just relying on excepted version to do so is impolite. As A Pots said:
“This story is presented in good faith and is from the memory of me as a young boy. If you feel it is a load of rubbish, I would appreciate that you show at least some respect.”

After all; how many years went by with people thing that Roy Brown shot him down?

Further more if Pvt. Jack was in the flight path and it was the last M/G gunner that did bring him down than Jack could have reasonably thought he had done it because he may have only seen the plane going down. Or, it could have been the other way around.

Thank you for sharing an account told by a veteran.

Ed

[RFC Pilot]

And I have yet to hear conclusive proof that Brown did NOT shoot him down.

This is just another account of someone else claiming to have downed the Baron.

Again, as has been said, this is a well presented story, but it is one man's 70 year old recollection.

[StephenLawson]

I like that it confirms the fact that the diggers all had rifles. Remember the hapless defenders of the faith that said "...these guys were working...laying commo lines they wouldn't carry rifles..." As if.