Lafayette Escadrille or Corps!?!

[StephenLawson]

Greetings all: In some recent threads there has been some confusion over the difference between the two entities;

Lafayette Escadrille (N.124)
and
The Lafayette Flying Corps.

I would like to propose a discussion on this subject. Essentially the Escadrille was the French Flying unit/ squadron composed of American pilots and French officers. This unit later became the 103rd Aero /pursuit sqdn of the AEF without the French cadre.

The Lafayette Flying Corps is the post war organization of American flyers that originally banded together to fight for their G.I bill of rights as note and passed but weakly supported by the existing U.S. Congressional members of 1919-1922. *This organization was fostered by original members of the Lafayette Escadrille. *Its last original officer and member was Reginald Sinclair of Fountain Colorado. *

The originally basic tenant of the Lafayette Flying Corps was to be a member you had to be an American that had flown or served with a foreign allied army before April 14th, 1918 or served in an American aviation unit of the AEF from 1917-1919. This was later expanded to include veterans of WWII and Korea. With the advent of Cross and Cockade USA in 1960 honorary members were later added to denote contributors, writers and historians that proliferated the history in print of the above mentioned units. The last member of this organization was added in 1995. *Other organizations like the Quiet Birdmen, the Daedaleons and the Silver Wings arose from the existance of the Lafayette Flying Corps.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

StephenLawson:
As I understand, when the personnel requirements had been met to fill the Esc.N124, the excess American volunteers were listed in the LaFayette Flying Corps and sent to various French Escadrilles. I don't think it originated after the war, but during the war, under the control of Dr.Edmond Gros.
blue skies,
Dan

[cameldriver]

Steve
It has always been my understanding that the LFC included all Americans who had flown for the French during the War. The first collaboration by Nordhoff and Hall, immediately after the War was a bio of each of the members of the LFC. I don't think that at that time there was any formal structure or independent organization known as the LFC, other than the support that the pilots (and Fred Zinn, the only observer) got from Dr. Gros, et al.

Bob

My understanding is the same as Dan-San's. I thought some other Americans served in French units and that a group of American-majority escadrilles were then combined into the Corps with N.124? Or that American flyers in French service were broadly labeled as being part of this Corps? Don't know for sure, though.

[Cigogne]

What Dan-San, History Dude, Cameldriver, etc. said.

You should contact Dennis Gordon, the author of both of the large histories of either organization.

(Lafayette Escadrille Pilot Biographies, and History of the Lafayette Flying Corps by Schiffer books.)

Cigogne

[retread]

Regarding Nordoff and Hall their book (Titled "The Lafayette Flying Corp") was written immediately after the war- I believe in 1919 while living on Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard.
I conduted a web search once to see if I could locate a copy. As best as I can recall it was done in two volumes, has never been in reprint and the single example I could find went in the neighborhood of $1,800.
Anyhow, the use of the term so soon after the war may be indicative it did originate during the fighting. Of course its possible it may have originated with Nordoff and Hall themselves.

[Billy9]

There was a reprint, as I have copies. It was by Kennikat Press

Bill

[cameldriver]

I think that the original edition was limited to about 1000 and the reprint to 500. There are a few copies of both available on the internet, with the copies going for several hundred dollars. I have a spare set of the original that I'll probably be putting on e-bay in the near future, so keep a heads up if you're interested.
Bob

[Cigogne]

The Dennis Gordon books are excellent and have utilized Nordhoff and Hall, PLUS other resources. See this link:

http://www.addall.com/Browse/Author/2477970-1

Also, see here for Schiffer:

http://www.schifferbooks.com/military/avia...0764311085.html

Book Description
This new book contains not only a history of the legendary Lafayette Flying Corps, but also detailed biographies of the 269 volunteer American airmen and gunners of France’s Service Aeronautique who flew in sixty-six pursuit and twenty-seven bomber/observation squadrons over the Western Front – also included are the thirty-eight pilots of the Escadrille Lafayette. It is an accurate and absorbing account of the lives and combat experiences of the men who later formed the nucleus of the American Expeditionary Force squadrons. This ground breaking work contains comprehensive research, including details of war casualties and survivors, and many unpublished photographs.

Mr. Gordon is considered the leading expert on this subject... namely U.S. Airmen who served with the French and British aviation services.

Cigogne

[StephenLawson]

StephenLawson:
As I understand, when the personnel requirements had been met to fill the Esc.N124, the excess American volunteers were listed in the LaFayette Flying Corps and sent to various French Escadrilles. *I don't think it originated after the war, but during the war, under the control of Dr.Edmond Gros. blue skies, Dan

Greetings Dan San; The organization was never recognized as a military unit to the French. In the beginning Dr. Gros recognized the importance of the publicity. Many units of the turn of the century were organized from locals. An entire unit might be made of men from an given area, The single exception with the French was of course the Foreign Legion. Since America's neutrality was at first an issue the official name became of course the Lafayette Escadrille. There were already Americans serving with the French and British. Take the case of David Putnam, a regular Army officer that was serving with the French TDY. William Ponder and another regular Army officer serving with the French. They were not assigned through civilian channels but through military channels. Yet they were declared members of the LFC.

The 'organization' in my humble opinion may have had some of its beginnings with Dr. Gros but its membership flourished in the post war years.

My aim here is not to disregard any of Mr. Gordon's fine writings. The escadrille being a real military unit and the Flying Corp was not. The LFC was not commanded by military authority but overseen by civilians both French and Americans with military cooperation. They were not a Group de Combat or were they ever squadron wing. Administratively speaking it would seem to have begun as a clearing house for those already serving and those who were answering the call.