Little-known German planes. Help.

Oldman · 31 March 2006, 12:02 AM

Hi all,
I am interested very much with little-known German planes WWI (and pre-war).
For example: AEG Z.3, B III, G I, N I, Albatros F.2, W.1, W.5, Friedrichshafen FF.19, FF.39, FF.41, Gotha LE.1, LE.2, WD.9, WD.13, LTG FD.1, Oertz W.5, Pfalz E II, III, IV, VI, Travemunde F.2 and others.
It is known, that they were on arms. Unfortunately, I have not enough information on these planes (who the designer, how many is made, where were at war, a photo, characteristics). I think, that this information will be interesting to all.
Thanks,
Oldman

EricGoedkoop · 31 March 2006, 05:02 AM

Here's a start -

The Pfalz E.III was merely an armed version of the A.I, which in turn was a copy (previously license-built) of the Morane-Saulnier L. Only a few were built.

Pat Daily · 31 March 2006, 08:08 AM

Does anyone know much about the Otto pushers built by Pfalz in their early days? Are there any 3 views or photos--would like to consider building a flying model of one.

Pat

Brad · 31 March 2006, 08:12 AM

The Pfalz EI is a license-built Morane. (Not sure which designation, but looks a LOT like a Fokker EI with different rudder and undercarriage.) The EII is an enlarged version with an extra set of flying/landing wires. The EIV (unless I am mistaken) is the inline-engine version of the same aircraft... not sure about the EVI... but the EV is again an EII with a bigger engine.

Brad

edmondthieffry · 31 March 2006, 09:59 AM

Hello Oldman,

The Pfalz E.I is a Morane-Saulnier Type H built under licence, powered by an 80 HP Oberursel U.0 engine. Its armament consist in a single MG. Only 45 were built.

The Pfalz E.II is an enlarged and lenghtened version of the E.I powered by a 100 HP Oberursel U.1 engine. Its main difference with the E.I is its wing bracing wires : three set instead of two sets for the E.I. 130 were built

The Pfalz E.III is an armed conversion of the Pfalz A.I/A.II (Morane-Saulnier L built under license). It was also powered by the Oberursel U.1 engine. I've not the number of converted aircrafts but a maximum of eigth was at the front in June 1916.

The Pfalz E.IV is an improved version of the E.II powered by the 160 HP Oberursel U.III (14 cylinders in two rows of seven). It had the same wing span as the E.II but its fuselage was slightly lengthened to compensate the engine's heavier weight. Only 46 aircrafts were built.

The E.VI was the final improvment of the E.II It had the same engine and the main differences were a different rudder shape and two sets of wing bracing wires instead of three on the E.II. Only 20 were built and this type was used only for training because it was obsolete for use on the front.

Two useful references ont this subject are :

Pfalz Aircraft of World War I by Jack Herris, Flying Machine Press, 2001, ISBN 978-1-891268-15-1

Pfalz E.I-E.VI by P.M. Grosz, Albatros Productions Ltd, 1996

Both are currently available.

Best regards from Belgium

Edmond

EricGoedkoop · 31 March 2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

The Pfalz EI is a license-built Morane. (Not sure which designation, but looks a LOT like a Fokker EI with different rudder and undercarriage.)

The Pfalz E.I is the MoS H, a very popular and successful machine in its day. The Fokker E.I was derived via the M5 from the same type. Changes/improvements include the altered rudder shape (there is at least one freely available photo of a Fokker monoplane with the MoS-style rudder), the elimination of the rear undercarriage legs in favor of joining the front legs to the lower wing-warping pylon with a horizontal "v", revised cowling and a re-engineered fuselage constructed of welded steel tube rather than wood.

The MoS G and L were also license-built in Russia and by Thulin in Sweden, again with some modifications. The Thulin D, for example, is the MoS L with a streamlined forward fuselage and other small improvements. The MoS/Pfalz/Fokker/Thulin family tree is a fascinating topic and a testament to the Morane-Saulniers' merits. Especially interesting (to me, anyway) are the parallel developments of the basic design by MoS and Fokker. Both developed the original MoS-type monoplane into parasols (MoS L, LA, P, AI; Fokker M6) and biplanes (MoS BB and eventually the AF; Fokker M7, M10/B.I, M17/D.II and subsequent early D-types) as well as more muscular shoulder-wing monoplanes. Degrees of success with these experiments varied . . . . .

Pat Daily · 31 March 2006, 10:11 AM

I think the Ottos were produced before they got the Morane rights.

Pat

edmondthieffry · 31 March 2006, 10:49 AM

Hello Pat Daily,

Exactly, the Otto pusher was the first aircraft to be built by Pfalz company. Otto was also a Bavarian company. Only few Otto were built by Pfalz due to their poor performances. They were powered by a 100 hp Rapp engine (Rapp was another Bavarian company). In the first reference that I quoted in my previous post, you'll find three pictures of these aircraft. The first show an Otto pusher guarded by Askaris in German Africa.

I think that I've a three views plan in an old Flug Revue or Windsock International but sadly (If I've them), these plans must be in 1/72 th scale.

Greetings

Edmond

Pat Daily · 31 March 2006, 06:08 PM

Edmund

I have the first reference and had noticed the photos. Would love to see a 3 view--I can enlarge them to a suitable size for flying scale.

Pat

Dan_San_Abbott · 31 March 2006, 07:34 PM

Oldman:
I wish to suggest a book that covers German aircraft from AEG to Zeppelin. It is: "GERMAN AIRCRAFT OF THE FIRST WORLD WAR", by Peter Gray and Owen Thetford, Published by Putnam & Company, London 1962, second edition 1970. ISBN 0 370 00103 6. This would be the first I would and the last of my collection, I would sell. 600 pages and over 500 aircraft are illustrated and described There are three view drawings of all the important aircraft. You might try you some of the better book stores and some on line. Whatever the cost it is worth it!!
Blue skies,
Dan-San