An Ace's Last Day

Elfen · 19 March 2002, 12:10 PM

In reviewing much literature on paper and on the net, Aces like Ball and Luke had witnessed "kills" on their last flight, but are not part of their records. Why?

Especially in the Arguement of Ball vs Lothar- if taken one way (where Ball shot down Lothar)- that would have added +1 to his score. Voss on his last flight had +3, and of course the Red Baron had +0...

This may shift an Ace's score and even position in history.

Regulus · 19 March 2002, 12:20 PM

Hi Elfen,

It seems indeed to have happened lot's of times. I have some examples also on the Marineflieger.
Never have asked myself the question, but probably had to do with the fact that the pilot himself didn't make the claim anymore and that nobody seems to have bothered to get them confirmed. Can't think of anything else that looks logical as that the idea was, now that he's dead it's not going to change anything for him.
Crazy thing is that if the pilot died in a mid-air collission with an enemy it was always confirmed (as far as I have seen examples). If he shot anyone down and was killed afterwards, not. Can anyone give a logical explanation ?

VBR from Regulus

Barrett · 19 March 2002, 02:18 PM

Luke's three balloons on his last mission were all confirmed posthumously--by US balloon observers.

stephen · 19 March 2002, 02:19 PM

In Luke's case, he was indeed credited with his final three victories. His kills were recorded by the US 7th Balloon Company at 1705, 1706 and 1712 hrs on 29 Sept, 1918, and all three are officially credited to his score as they should be. His total score is 18, plus one unconfirmed victory near Soissons in late August.

The assertion that he should have 21 kills is a myth... he should - and does - have 18.

Richard_Schrader · 20 March 2002, 04:41 AM

Maybe is Ball's case, it's just the fact that he was not around to make the claim!
Richard

Elfen · 20 March 2002, 06:40 AM

OPPS! I put this on the wrong section.... Sorry!
But lets continue; it should get intersting!

In Voss' case, he disabled 3 planes and to all respect are considered as kills if he would have returned alive. The fact the he put bullet holes into every plane he fought that day says something!

To my understanding, Mannock had 2 kills on his last day and was going for a 3rd before his plane burst into flames from ground fire and was never seen again. ( or do I have the wrong ace here? )

Guynemer was last seen attacking an Aviatik near Poelcapelle, is there any record of a missing 2-seater not coming back on that day?

Maybe its time to review what facts can be found and do a re-tally of scores?