Effective Range of the Maxim

17 July 2005, 07:55 AM

Helo,

Can anyone explain to me the maximum effective range of the Maxim machine gun, as it was mounted on an aircraft? At what range would it still be accurate, and have an ample amount of hitting power?

regards,

Darren

17 July 2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

wingedwarrior: Helo,

Can anyone explain to me the maximum effective range of the Maxim machine gun, as it was mounted on an aircraft? At what range would it still be accurate, and have an ample amount of hitting power?

regards,

Darren

I think it's the "Spandau" MG that your thinking of (which differed slightly from the standard "Maxim"), but here's some information on the "Maxim"...

The Maxim Machine-Gun, the Maschinengewehr fired 7.92mm ammunition from a 250-round fabric belt. The German Army deployed over 12,000 of these machine-guns on the Western Front during August 1914. It had a practical range of 2,200 yards and an extreme range of 4,000 yards...

... and the "Spandau"...

http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/mgun_spandau.htm

Hope this is of help.

"Prost!"

TomVrille · 17 July 2005, 08:52 AM

There were a number of Maxim guns in widespread aircraft use in WW1, in a number of different calibers and ammunition types. The German MG 08 was essentially the basic Maxim design in 7.92mm, while the Vickers-Maxim was a modified mechanism in .45in and .303in calibers, and so on.

The range dependent accuracy is as much a function of the specific aircraft installation as it is of the ballistics of the selected ammunition type, and of course, the ability of the shooter to estimate range reasonably well.

Tripehound · 17 July 2005, 10:00 AM

There's no set answer to this. With a LOT of luck a hit could be obtained at the gun's absolute maximum range, or at any range under that. From what I've read about this the maximum effective range from a bouncing, vibrating airplane, shooting at another airplane, was considered to be 100 yards,and the most desirable position was 50 yards or less, and dead behind.

EricGoedkoop · 17 July 2005, 10:03 AM

I can't help you with range, but I do know that "accuracy" is a relative term at best when the guns were strapped to aircraft. If you caught the episode of "Unsolved History" dealing with MvR, you'll remember an experiment they did: a target was pasted to the side of one of the hangars up at Old Rhinebeck, and the Camel was parked across the field from it with a laser pointer attached to the forward deck between the Vickers. The range was a few hundred yards, I think. They fired the Camel up, and the vibration of the engine caused the laser pointer "shots" to dance all over the place. The spread recorded on the target was something like 3 or four 4 feet across, and this was from an airplane sitting stationary on the ground.

I would guess that the effect might be less pronounced with an inline engine, but I don't know for sure. One thing's for certain - markmanship didn't count for anything in a scout if you weren't pretty dang close to your target.

TomVrille · 17 July 2005, 12:06 PM

As a follow-up to Eric's post, this quotation from Elliott White Springs about the Camel:

"They would do about 90 level but you couldn't fly level because they would shake your teeth out in 40 seconds by the clock....Its guns were best at 100 yards...Beyond that you would waste bullets because of the terrific vibration."

17 July 2005, 04:46 PM

Thanks Gentlemen for your informative answers. I read about one pilot whom shot an aircraft down at a range of 550 meters (using a telescopic sight of course

) He did mention that he was never able to repeat the endeavor

There are way too many variables that need to be factored in, but knowing that in a best case scenario, the range can extend up to 2,200 yards or 2,000 meters (probably in a controlled environment, from a stationary position on the ground).

regards,

Darren

Barrett · 17 July 2005, 05:39 PM

Anyone who INTENTIONALLY shot down an airplane at 550 yards/meters/daddy steps was operating out where the busses didn't run. (If I'd done it, I wouldn't mention it unless I had witnesses.) Even mounted on stationary-engined aircraft, that's off the scale, and I have severe doubts that any pilot short of Superman could accurately guesstimate the difference between 500 and 600 yards/meters/daddy steps.

Let's assume the guns were sighted at 100 yds. That means the ballistic drop at 500 was at least 5 feet, likely more. OK, you're speeding along in your Albatros/Fokker/whatever. even from a dead 6 position, how you gonna accurately guesstimate the holdover? Does the target remain straight & level while you get the range?

I ain't saying it didn't happen (anybody can have one Real Good Day) but the chances are reeeeeally slim.

The 2,000 yds max range doesn't apply to anything except massed troops, what's called an area target. That's a nautical mile: and how well can anyone you know see at that distance?

17 July 2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrett

Anyone who INTENTIONALLY shot down an airplane at 550 yards/meters/daddy steps was operating out where the busses didn't run.

Actually, he mentions that he only was doing some target practice on the enemy flight, not intending to hit anything. Maybe the 550 meter thingy was a bit of an exaggeration though

regards,

Darren

Dan_San_Abbott · 17 July 2005, 07:31 PM

Gentlemen:
My guess is 100 FEET and I would expect about 20% chance of hits. 100 yards/meters, a 1 % chance of a hit. RFC/RAF required machines set to converge at 150 yards (Trenchard). With all the vibration from the engine/aircraft bouncing around the sky and the added vibration of the machine guns added.. Thats where the quotation from our first war, "Don't fire until you can see the whites of their eyes."
Blue skies,
Dan-San