Reproduction Pour Le Merite ( Blue Max )

[farcwarts]

There have been two very nice reproduction examples of the Pour Le Merite that have sold on ebay recently for very high prices. The 925 marked examples that have the inlayed letters and a powder blue enamel, does anyone have one of these for sale at a reasonable price that you could direct me to? Ebay item number 6541613000 shows the example that I am hoping to find. Any suggestions? Feel free to private email me if that is allowed on this forum (I'm new)- bsigg@comcast.net

Hi. You might try searching the old threads section here on The Forum. A few months ago there was a pretty lengthy discussion that covered reproduction PLM's and where to find them. Give it a shot.... HF

Try Reddick Enterprises (a.k.a Crazy Crow Trading Post). They have a "higher quality" reproduction. I think it sells for about $98.00. The details are a tad better and the enamel is domed. There is also a dealer in the UK that sells one that is even stamped "925". I think he actually gold plates over silver as were the originals. It is not inexpensive. I think he charges about $225. His name escapes me right now, but when I remember I will repost.

Farcwarts,
I finally remembered the name of the individual in the UK that makes a decent Pour Le Merite. His Name is Nicholas Morigi. The link to his PLM is as follows:

http://www.nicholasmorigi.com/catalo...%20DECORATIONS

or

http://www.nicholasmorigi.com/

According to his web site he uses 925 real silver and gold plates them with 24 karat gold. He then stamps them 925 (for the silver content of course). I have one and I have to admit that it is really nice. I haven't scratched any of the gold off to see if real 925 silver was used because I don't want to damage it (at 125.00 British Pounds, I guess I will just have to take his word). It is by far the one of the best pre/early WW1 repro PLMs I have seen to date. It is not going to fool anyone, but most will do a double take. I hope this helps.

Several years ago I bought a PLM which was represented as a jeweler's copy. Bill Hammelman, who wrote a good reference on the PLM happened to be at the show and he agreed to look at it for me. He said it would have been made between 1917 to 1920. Over the years a couple arms on the reverse had been chipped and repaired. The enamel is pale blue, but the repairs are somewhat lighter still. Interestingly, the back has numerous fine scratches, to be expected if it is to be worn at all times and uniforms have a top metal button. It has no mark for silver content. One point which was disappointing was that two of the eagles had their breast feathers stripped off, and the other two were missing their back feathers. You can see the striations from what looks like a buffing wheel. I bought it anyway. My bet is that someone, perhaps at the time of the repairs, buffed it up without paying attention and stripped the high points on the eagles, front and back.

Only recently did I think about the implication of the stripped feathers. In a silver piece with gold plate, the raised feathers are silver and underlay the gold. Silver is much tougher than gold. It doesn't buff away easily. (I know, I used to buff my USAF silver "brass"--if you looked you could almost always find silver in the uniform store, as well as the normal junk.) These feathers had no silver underlay. When the feathers were buffed away, they were gone. No silver. Nor does this tarnish. It is not brass. (As an Aggie in the Corps of Cadets, I polished an awful lot of that too.) The reason this has no silver mark is now obvious. No silver. Its solid gold. Nice "jewelers copy". Gold was hard to come by in 1917 to 1920 Germany, but certainly it could be found. Not really sure what this means, but I suspect I'll find it with some more research.

Matt Witt

[Aerowallah]

Sounds like a nice find, Matt. Did he detail why he thought it dated from 1917 to `20? Does it have late-war Baroque suspension (1917-)? But if it is early-war pie-plate in gold, I would just think you have an even nicer early war wearer's copy, as recipients were split on whether to wear the actual piece issued by the Kaiser. I don't think I've ever seen a Baroque Max in gold...always silver-gilt. Unless it was specially requested much later when stocks were available, which puts it beyond 1917-20. I always assumed a wealthy German could bring precious metals into a jeweller and say, make me such-and-such. But they would both be breaking the law after certain strategic-use laws were passed. I always figured if Richthofen couldn't get a break on his silver victory cups after 1917, then nobody was. I don't believe there were gold Maxes from that period PERIOD! You must have a pie-plate, right?
Rgds

Hi Aerowallah;

Your assumption is correct, it is a pie hanger. Hammelman did not say what he was basing his conclusion about the age on. He looked at it for a couple minutes. It was being sold by a well known dealer and he and Hammelman obviously knew one another. It was the dealer who called him over, but I already knew who Hammelman was as I had his book on the PLM. It has a small ovoid stain in the pie hanger. I have a suspicion what it is, but I don't want to say yet. I have thought over the years of getting it read in an SEM (scanning electron microscope), but it can be expensive. I used to know a fella who had one for his business but never got around to having him look at it. In the picture it looks very much like it has heat bluing. This is only apparent in the picture and there is no suggestion at all of this to the naked eye. It would tie in to my suspicions about the black spot, however. The pie wedge had a uniform patina when I first received it. I tried to clean the spot off of it, however, and the patina came away in that area. All I used was a q-tip, but the spot remained, albeit somewhat lighter than before (maybe).

Thanks for your comments. I know a little about uniforms, but medals and decorations are way outside my area. BTW, I love and covet your "Tor becher".

Here it is:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...tting/plm1.jpg

Matt

[Aerowallah]

Interesting, Matt. Unless you are fanatical about patina, why don't you clean it gently with something non-abrasive? Gold shouldn't tarnish, and if it's been darkened chemically or with heat I would want to restore the gold to its original unmonkeyed look. But if there is a silver base metal down there, you will lift the tarnish and see it redarken in a few months. Though it's hard to tell, some of the patina looks like what I'm getting on a navy flying badge where the gilding is worn in places and the silver is blackening underneath. You have it especially on the pie wedge where there is a lot of wear from the suspension ring. But it's hard to tell from a photo. Pick a spot--so you don't wear away any more gold plating if that's what it is. Maybe that's why Hammelman dated it late war. But a silver gilt pie plate should be mid-war. Unless wearer's copies were always available in both styles. I wonder if they were ever mixed by a recipient? Too many questions
Rgds
John
P.S. Glad you found the Becher interesting. I had to liquidate a lot of my old collection to get it which put me on a different track. I'll post a few more of Volkmann's things later.

Thanks for the thoughts Monsieur Wallah. The patina appears as a very slight darkening of the gold, a very slight orangish or brownish tint only. I don't understand it, but the medal does not show this bluing or the deep brownish look seen in the picture at all. I did rub it away in the area to the lower left of the hanger hole near the black spot. To the eye that area is now bright gold (though not shiny because the surface is stippled) and has been that way for 15 years. The fact that the breast feathers are entirely gone in a couple places, but still are bright gold argues against a silver underlay. Hammelman may have assumed it was the dealer who buffed it up, that there was silver on those breasts, and that with time the silver would show up as it tarnished differently from the gold around it. If that was his assumption, it hasn't happened that way. They are the brightest gold on the piece.

As far as polishing, even gently, I was always under the assumption that that was frowned upon in the medals and orders world. Was I incorrect? I often see references to pilot's badges or EK's as having deep patina and being unpolished as if that is a major selling point. Sounds like you disagree. I will say though, that I suspect the patina is due to heat. I need to look up the melting point of gold and that should tell me if that's even a possibility.

When I first saw your becher I knew exactly what is was even though I had no basis for thinking or saying as much. It was one of those rare items that just speaks to you even if you don't know why or how. I don't make a habit of talking to my computer, but the day you posted the first picture I looked at it and just said "Wow".

Thanks for the help and the thoughts.

Matt

[Aerowallah]

Well, it sounds like gold! There are no rules to patina--just good and bad patina, and personal taste. Collectors like it as a verification of age. But I can do the same thing with urine (I like mine best--only kidding) or sliced hardboiled eggs (works in 10 minutes). Gold dug out of a tomb looks the same as it did 3,000 years ago, so I would clean your atypical discoloration. As you can see I didn't clean the Becher, as it would lose a lot of character. On badges and other things I might buff the high points, or clean something that is black and let it re-patina. If you give an old medal group to Spink in London, they will clean it to within an inch of its life, then lacquer it! So there is no one philosophy. Other collectors I know want everything parade ground bright, from badges to garde du korps helmets. Presentation silver would always be kept clean by its proud recipient. Suum cuique!
Rgds
PS Maybe you owned a "Thor" in your last life. What farmer's field did you bury yours in?