Flik 60/J fuselage band - what colour?

[GrzeM]

Some states: red, while some others: black.
Who are right?
Why?
Flik 60/J was created and commanded by Frank Linke-Crawford, and used Phonix D.I, D.II, D.IIa and Aviatik-Berg D.I planes. Untill death of Crawford, it was very successfull Flik, and they even captured one British Camel, which was forced to land on their own airfield (British pilot, Forder, became P.O.W). After Crawford's death, Flik was disbanded, and pilots with their planes were transferred to other Fliks.
Unit marking of Flik 60/J was wide, dark band on fuselage. On that band pilots painted in white first letters of their surnames, Linke-Crawford had "L".
I'm looking for serious, confirmed info about colour of that band.
Cheers!
Grzegorz

[StephenLawson]

Greetings GrezM:

The band was black. C&C USA Vol. 17, #3, P. 286 paragraph 5 Alois Rudlaner Flik 60 pilot say bands were black not red.

Other references are:
C&C USA 1/ 3/14-27.
1/ 4/21-26.
2/ 4/350-354.
15/3/193-200.
17/3/286/5.
17/4/374 & 383/6.
18/4/380/4.

C&C Intl. 17/1/24-35.

Over the Front 6/ 2/ Front Cover By James Dietz, An Eagle Falls. the death of Linke-Crawford.
Good Luck Stephen.

[GrzeM]

Many thanks, Stephen!
I was sure that they were black, but needed confirmation.
Some serious Czech sources (Mr.Petr Tesar, author of the JaPo Oeffag D.III book) states that they were red, but I think a cause of the misundertanding lies in post Flik 60/J service of some airplanes in red-band Fliks.
If you are interested in his article "Rote Rumpfbinde" (Red Bands) - unfortunately in Czech, let me know.
Cheers!
Grzegorz

[Hans]

Grzegorz,
Hauke/Schroeder/Tötschinger's
Die Flugzeuge der k.u.k. Luftfahrstruppe und Seeflieger, Graz 1997 says Red.

From page 141 on they list the Flik colors from the first orders in November 1917 on, where only wheels were painted. After beginning of 1918 more signs were ordered. The text is written in a style which implies as if copied from official statements, but I am definetely not sure.

For 11. Army, Tirolean Front, they write:

Flik 60J - rote Rumpfbinde mit weissen Buchstaben.

( The " - " means: No colouring of wheels; translation of text is: Red band on fuselage with white letters ).

Was Flik 60J stationed only at the Tirolean front? Maybe they used different bands....

Yours
Hans

[GrzeM]

Hehehehe!
I wrote that there is no agreement here...
I wonder who's right, and who's wrong.
But Rodlauer's statement looks like convincing proof.
Especially if I like it black
Danke schön, Hans!

[Hans]

Take your choice, Grzegorz!
It's the same old problem. The book does not reveal their prime sources, the other variant is based on personal memory. Heaven knows... ( especially as they can ask Linke-Crawford...)

Hans

[GrzeM]

The band was black. *C&C USA Vol. 17, #3, P. 286 paragraph 5 *Alois Rudlaner Flik 60 pilot say *bands were black not red.

Stephen!
Could you write a little more? I'm discusing this topic with serious Czech researcher, Petr Tesar (author of the JaPo Albatros/Oeffag book) now, and he's pretty sure that bands were red.
I personally prefer black, so I want to have proofs.
Cheers!
G.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

GrzeM:
* *According to Dr. Martin O'Connor in his massive work,"Air Aces of the Austro-Hungarian Empire 19140-1918" on page 251, the Phönix D.I 228.24, flown by Kurt Gruber of Flik 60J, fuselage band was black with the stylized letter G,outlined in white.
* *In a Combat Report by L.Procter Huins of 45 Squadron, Camel (RAF) on 1 June 1918 describing Linke-Crawford's Aviatik D.I 115.32, wrote:
"Black with a large letter "L" on the top center *section of the Albatros D.V."(sic)
* *On page 251 is Profile No.42, the illustration of Linke-Crawford's Phonix D.II 122.01 with the black fuselage and black fuselage band with a letter "L" in white outline.
On page 238 are the research data for both illustrations. *The data was obtained *first hand through interviews. * Linke-Crawford used the Flik 60J black band and outlined "L" on his Phönix D.I 228.14, 228.16 and Aviatik. D.I 115.32.
* *Flik 41J had the red fuselage band according to Marty. *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *Blue Skies,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan-San * *

[GrzeM]

Dan-San!
Many thanks!

On page 238 are the research data for both illustrations. *The data was obtained *first hand through interviews. *

What are that interviews? I need detailed statements, as I'm discussing it with Petr Tesar (author of the JaPo Oeffag book), who's stronly supporting statement that Flik60j had red bands. He published 2 big articles about it, in French Avions and in Czech Revi mags.
BTW, Linke's Phonix all black? It sounds doubtfull.

Cheers!
Grzegorz Mazurowski
Warsaw, Poland

[StephenLawson]

BTW, Linke's Phonix all black? It sounds doubtfull.
Grzegorz Mazurowski

GrzeM: Forgive my attempt at interpretation here but I think Dan was referring to the band colour. Not the whole machine.