What kind of fellow was Immelmann... really!

I recently finished reading the English translation of the book, Eagle of Lille written by the brother of Max Immelmann. I found it terribly interesting and could not put it down. Since then, I have wondered about Der Adler von Lille's personality. At times he seems quite modest in his achievements and at others more egotistical. Like most of us, I suppose he could have shown both sides. As his fame grew, perhaps his ego did as well. For those of you out there who know Immelmann more in depth than I do, can you advise what his friends or acquaintences really thought about him? HF

I really don't know a whole lot about the man, as I tend to study the latter period of the war. While I don't remember the source (hence the validity), I did read somewhere that he actually would charge people for his autograph!

Where are all those Immelmann fanatics out there.....

regards,

Darren

[ehrenpries]

Hey ! Plenty of Max fans out here in Cyberspace !

One characteristic that isnt usually known is that Max was a budding artist,
I would even suggest that if the War had not happened that he would have become an illustrator or artist.

Yes he seemed to be ready to realize that his signature was valuable, as did MvR, who apparently often traded his signature (via his quartermaster) for supplies for the boys !

Ehrenpries

[Lufbery]

I couldn't resist:

I heard Max Immelmann was pretty loopy.

*Drew ducks the rotten veggies thrown his way...*

Thanks for the comments so far. The book, "The Eagle of Lille" was written by Max's brother Franz. Most of the information was taken directly from Immelmann's letters home. He seemed to have been a voluminous writer and left out little in the way of details at the front, etc. As I said, the book was fascinating and I suspect it was partially intended to inspire the next crop of pilots, etc. coming up in the German ranks prior to the Second World War.
I had not heard of Immelmann's interest as an artist Tony. Thanks for the tidbit. He was fascinated by all things mechanical- took apart motorcycles, automobiles and put them all back together. In today's vernacular he would be called good with his hands. His mother subscribed to the notion of limiting alcohol, meat, tobacco, etc. and raised her family on a spartan/mostly vegetarian health regimen. I wish someone had information on what his pears thought of him. I think a guy who was as successful as Max was early in the War would have some ego or cockiness- that would be normal. But was he sweet on himself so that others disliked him? Any help would be interesting...

History Fan

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Lufbery

I couldn't resist:

I heard Max Immelmann was pretty loopy.

*Drew ducks the rotten veggies thrown his way...*

Is that what they mean by "Drew fire"?

[JG1Schorner]

The impression that I have gotten is that he was a bit shy and reserved. While Boelcke was giving nurses joy rides (in airplanes and otherwise ) Max was writing mom.

I've gotten the distinct impression earning the Prussian Pilot Badge was not an easy gimme. As a matter of fact some pilots who were allowed to solo and fly combat missions still hadn't been awarded one. I believe Max completed more than 50 training flights before he took the controls alone. Does any one know whether that was about the average or more on the high or low side?? The reason I ask is due to one thing about Immelman I've always wondered about.

Granted war doesn't run on the kind of schedule you can always plan on, and he was ordered to Armee-Flugpark 3 in March 1915 - before he had completed the mandated three tests which among other things included LANDINGS. (Here's why I wonder whether the 50 was on the high side...) Within three weeks he then completed his formal training. But in that final training flight with an observer, despite his getting lost and having to land (which they did fine) when they were running out of fuel...(!) once they got more fuel and were headed back, Max whacked the undercarriage somehow(some say a gust of wind caught the aeroplane..while taxiing?)... and it took two days to fix in before they could return. Then on that return he had problems landing (numb fingers from the cold??) though the plane wasn't damaged. But this isn't where it ends... a handful of day later he was handed orders to report to FA 10 at Vrizy, and in flying his machine the day after arriving, made a rough landing and literally wiped out the undercarriage . OK so he had 'a little trouble with the trolley' as they say... The only problem was when he had to go back to Rethel and pick up a replacement machine (what does that tell you about the damage) he again had trouble with the trolley on landing and damaged the undercarriage , though this time it could be fixed. He was then (for some reason) after several days, transferred to FA 62.

I do sincerely believe Max was one of the Greatest Pilots of his time. The equipment hadn't had many of the bugs gotten out of it, and flying in the cold in an open cockpit I can't even imagine. What I've always wondered about was why reference has always been made to the difficulty mentioned above that way I've heard it. I tend to think he was still learning but I've always been amazed he didn't acquire a reputation for being hard on undercarriages - that I would think might not be easy to shake off for a new pilot.

On the flip side perhaps Immelman's 'ability' dwarfed the mishaps... the day following his hard landing noted above (once the damage had been repaired) he found himself almost archied into oblivion and in dodging the bursts ended up in a wicked sideslip falling about a third of a mile but through ability or luck (I think raw ability) showed his stuff and recovered from it , and completed the mission. (It was right after that he was transferred to FA62).

Does anyone else have any accounts from this period - was he moved because he was gutsy and the ability was recognized, or was there a feeling he didn't have the experience/ability?

Hello Jagdstaffeln!
Thanks for your detailed message. I am not sure how many flights were needed to solo so I cannot comment on the 50 or so needed. During his early War experience, Max seemed to be known for making hard landings and wrecking his plane as you noted! The book, "The Eagle of Lille" talks about these mishaps. Immelmann recounts them in his letters home and his brother Franz speaks about them as well. Most are described as being caused by weather, hitting ruts in the field, caused by one landing gear being broken, etc. As time passed, these landing incidents subsided. Max was even asked at times to put on flight demonstrations for dignitaries or to fly VIP's around. I can't imagine this was something that would have been requested of a poor pilot. As far as his transfer is concerned I doubt it was due to lack of experience. The book mentions that Max had to fly into other units patrol areas in order to find enemy planes to do battle with, his area being scrubbed of possible victims. This was one of the reasons he was given the title der Adler von Lille- the area around Lille being known as a place where Immelmann was and one where you wouldn't want to be! HF

Originally Posted by Jagdstaffeln

I've gotten the distinct impression earning the Prussian Pilot Badge was not an easy gimme. As a matter of fact some pilots who were allowed to solo and fly combat missions still hadn't been awarded one. I believe Max completed more than 50 training flights before he took the controls alone. Does any one know whether that was about the average or more on the high or low side

Rammjaeger wrote a good deal about German pilot training a couple years ago. See: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...light+training . You are right that earning the flugzeugfuhrerabzeichen was not an easy task (not to mention that you had to have excellent spelling skills). Rammjaeger backs you up on the 50 training flight figure prior to first solo, but I am doubtful. A war was going on and I just don't believe they would have taken 50 hours before solo. You don't have that much time to spend on one man. If he can't show he can pick it up in a lot less than 50 hours, you need to shift your focus to someone who can pick it up and who can fill a needed combat position at the front. Truth is, many Allied pilots went into combat with not much more than 50 hours total flight time. Even today, with a much more complex air environment, not to mention constant legal liability concerns, its not unusual to solo at about ten hours of flight time (usually about ten flights). My first instructor was a WW1 pilot, about 80 years old at the time (the mid 1970's), and he announced me as being ready for solo at four hours total flying time. (He warned me not to miss the runway. Apparently he had seen an over-anxious student once land on top of a hanger.) Admittedly, Mr. West (bless his soul) was a throwback, but he was a throwback to the time Ltn. Immelmann was learning to fly.

As to the problems with landings, WW1 a/c were not easy to land or to taxi, particularly by modern standards. The undercarriages were narrow, very stiff (very little shock absorbtion), centers of gravity were very high, you had no brakes (in most a/c), most aircraft were intentionally tail heavy, and landing approach speeds were far closer to stall speeds than most of us would be comfortable with today. Add to that the grass strips that suffered the effects of frequent rain and heavy usage. They were often rutted, had hidden holes (damned badgers! No wonder the Germans liked their dachshunds!), rocks, and boggy spots. Not to mention the effect of high torque engines and big props when someone goosed an engine a little more than he should when trying to get the machine turned about, etc.

This all reminds me of a documentary I saw a number of years ago (Nova?). They were interviewing a very elderly but dapper gentleman who had flown Fokker Triplanes during the war. He was comparing the comparatively small number of hours they received in training (I think fewer than 80 flight hours, but that is just a vague recollection) and the quirkiness and difficult flight characteristics of the tripe. The interviewer was clearly taken aback and asked something to the effect of how they ever managed to get them off the ground and back down again? The gentleman leaned forward very slightly, gave just a small smile, and said quietly,"Oh, well, we crashed often." He went on to explain that landings were at very low speed and the machines were strongly built, so serious injuries were rare. Crashes upon landing were just something you dealt with on a fairly frequent basis in the early days of flying.

Matt