Another Richthofen this time the real McCoy?

wulffo · 28 January 2005, 03:40 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...507486799&rd=1

At the rate at which these signed cards are coming up the unsigned ones should be getting scarce.

FliegerJG1 · 28 January 2005, 09:06 AM

Beautiful card! Although the signature lacks the characteristic mark above the "R" the writing does look like authentic MvR.

Unsigned cards getting scarce...

I suspect that these cards are turning up because people are beginning to "clean house" and the original owners are no longer living.

VBR...FliegerJG1

Amy · 28 January 2005, 04:11 PM

I'm not convinced it's authentic but apparently some people are considering the current bid.

a) The beginning isn't right. I have never seen a Richthofen autograph in which the capital "R" of his last name is attached to the beginning of his autograph as one continuous scribble. I've always been able to easily identify the "R", but not here. Which scribble is the "R"? It's all connected.

b) Where's the flick of the pen above the "R"?

c) This autograph is s-o-o-o-o incredibly dark. I have not seen such darkness from an 80+ year old autograph. In many cases from postcard signatures this old, the autograph has faded so much it's hard to completely make it out. However in this case, you can spot this autograph from a mile away.

d) It would appear to me that the ink was written over the silver oxidation around the edges of the aged postcard rather than the ink aging with the postcard. Take a good close gander at that.

I'm no expert but looks like a fake to me and whoever signed it practiced well before the final "signature".

Caveat emptor!

.

"Junior" · 28 January 2005, 05:04 PM

Another wonderful example of "buyer beware" from eBay...

FliegerJG1 · 29 January 2005, 07:11 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...508648585&rd=1

This one features a mark above the "R" and faded ink. It's an older looking signature at least.

After I read the earlier posts and looked again at the signature being discussed I dug out a copy of a signature that I know is certainly original. There's no mark above the "R" which makes me wonder how consistent MvR was with his handwriting. The "R" is a little less rounded. Maybe some signatures that look a little different could be his having written them in a hurry. A possibility??? Amy's close analysis of the ink & card though gave me doubts about the originality of that particular item. Just a few more thoughts for the discussion....

VBR...FliegerJG1

29 January 2005, 08:48 PM

Hum.... Here is another Richthofen Sanke, which is VERY similar to the one mentioned by FliegerJG1:

http://www.leisuregalleries.com/richthofen.html

Now, I know that this one is authentic, as John Ihnotic, the owner of Leisure Galleries, has an excellent reputation for selling only the very best.

They do have the same characteristics, don't they? I think that this one could very well be authentic.

Now the other one, well .....

regards,

Darren

VtwinVince · 30 January 2005, 12:03 PM

I don't like the first one. If spending that much money, provenance is key.

ehrenpries · 31 January 2005, 11:44 PM

Loved the comment Wulffo.there has been an avalanche of MvRs recently.
Hang on to your unsigned ones !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes Amy you are quite right.

I believe first impressions go along way if you have sighted many examples of known authentic signatures.

My first impression was "goodnight nurse"...or "leave this one alone"........it seems to me that the signature starts off convincingly and then detiorates badly as the writer desperately tries to keep the flow and continuity of the characteristics going. Of course I may be wrong, and that MvR was a bit sloppy with this one, but that doesnt tie up with the strength of the signature.Anyone using this ammount of strength and attention providing their signature is usually careful and consistent.....this is not consistent with any of the classic original signatures Ive seen, and believe me Ive seen most of them that have been available over the last decade.

I hope Im wrong for the buyers sake ..or is that for the buyers sanke...ho ho !

More mulled wine nurse

Ehrenpries

Amy · 1 February 2005, 06:56 AM

Someone is certainly celebrating in Germany with the sale of that smelly phoney.

Regarding the good postcards that get tainted with phoney autographs: How much worth do they lose? Or, does a good MvR postcard with a phoney autograph hold the same value as a good MvR postcard sans phoney autograph? Anybody know? Joe Gertler?

ehrenpries · 1 February 2005, 05:30 PM

Note also the alarm bell................'User ID kept private'

Sometimes it is to stop nuisance busybodies interferring, which would be the case with Stefans 2 listings (MvR and the Max/Boelcke) on ebay at the moment. Stefan Korlin is 100% and sometimes takes the trouble to warn people like me if they are bidding on a fake. Of course that invites retaliation by those he has exposed. Stefan certainly helped me to avoid a dud Immelmann in the past.thankyou mate.

BUT MOSTLY THE USER ID KEPT PRIVATE is an attempt to stop the reverse, and protect their innocent bidders from benefiting from an expert taking the time to warn them off.

Ive said it before , but on balance I think the User Id kept private should be discontinued by ebay.

Really this signature is laughable compared to a real beauty like Stefans up for grabs as I write.

Ehrenpries