Doubt about Fokker D.VII of Ernst Udet

Sir Stuka · 21 January 2005, 11:30 PM

Hello my dear friends:

My name is Ricardo Carrillo Cassaigne and I am of the Mexico City. I was looking for information about Fokker D.VII early OAW and I found this wonderful Forum. I hope that some of you can help me to solve a doubt.

I have Fokker D.VII (OAW early) of Roden, 1/48, and I want to arm the airplane manned by Ernst Udet. In agreement with the instructions, the airplane has the nose of black color, as well as lozange in the inferior face of the upper wing.

Nevertheless, in the profiles that I have found about this airplane, the fuselage is painted totally of red color (FS 31120) and the upper wing was candy-striped in red and white, as much in its superior face as inferior.

Similar doubts are the struts and covers of the wheels (red or black?), white chevron extending along the upper fuselage (yes or not?), and a long list of others doubts, all about color scheme

. I have only found a photography of this airplane in webpage www.jastaboelcke.de , but it does not help me to solve my doubts:

Somebody of you could help me to solve these doubts? What would be the more correct painting scheme to finish my Ernst Udet's Fokker?

I beforehand thank for its answers and send you greetings from the México City.

Your friend:

Jagdpanzer · 21 January 2005, 11:43 PM

In the Osprey book Fokker DVII Aces of WWI, Part 1 by Norman Franks and Greg VanWyngarden, three of Udet's DVII's are illustrated. OAW DVII serial unknown, a second OAW with unknown serial, and DVII 4253/18.

The first has the black nose of Jasta 4, black struts, and a black and white striped top wing. The authors speculate the striping could have been in red, but Udet flew other aircraft with black and white striping before the DVII. I did a skin recently for this machine for Wings Of War, a PC flight sim:

(Note the striping is incorrect because of mirroring issues in the sim, but the colors conform to the above authors impressions.)

The second OAW DVII has the black Jasta 4 markings as above, but the machine is covered in lozenge fabric on both surfaces of the wings and the entire fuselage as well. It carries Udet's personal Lo! markings and his white chevron on the tail.

4253/18 Has the entire nose and fuselage in red with Udet's personal markings, red struts and wheelcovers, and wings in lozenge fabric.

Hope this helps....

paule · 22 January 2005, 05:58 AM

I thought it should look like that:

paule · 22 January 2005, 06:06 AM

btw...
jagdpanzer could you give me some more details about the thirt d7?

when did he flew it, what happend to the lozenge camouflaged d7? crashed?

Im also making skins for a flightsim... so I'm curious

Sir Stuka · 22 January 2005, 08:33 AM

Thank you Jagdpanzer and paule, your information is very important for me.

Like you say Jagdpanzer, one of the airplanes flown by Ernst Udet was a triplane Fokker Dr.1 called "Optical Illusion", and that previously had been flown by Leutnant Hans Kirschstein. This airplane had tail surfaces, struts, wheel covers, most of the fuselage and the upper wing painted in a striped black and white scheme. Udet only added its personal emblem (Lo!) painted in red to the sides of the fuselage. Perhaps it is the airplane of which you speak. (By the way, you have made a wonderful work, your Fokker is beautiful really.
Congratulations my friend !!!!)

Second Udet's Fokker D.VII, totally covered of lozenge and with nose, struts and wheel covers painted in black, was early OAW-built, the 2117/18 ("Aces 3" by W. Wayne Patton, squadron/signal publications).

Third Udet's Fokker D.VII (4253/18), was an airplane BMW-powered. Certainly, it was painted totally in red but with the wings covered with lozenge. By the way, this airplane later was flown by Hermann Göring, who painted the rear fuselage and the tail in white.

Nevertheless, I'm searching information about his Fokker D.VII early-OAW powered by a Mercedes engine (526/18). I think that Paule's image is maybe this airplane (pretty postal, my friend!!!), but the image does not say anything about the serial number of the airplane.

In this image, the chevron that extends throughout the fuselage forms a single strip, but other profiles show two strips. What is the correct version? I don't know.

Well Jagdpanzer and paule my friends, thank you very much for your help. I send you strong embrace from México City.

Your friend:

Rick · 22 January 2005, 08:46 AM

Stephen Lawson, where are your two "Lo" models when we need them? 1) the B/W striped guy and 2) the R/W striped guy? R.

Jagdpanzer · 22 January 2005, 01:40 PM

Sir Stuka, I have seen profiles of the Udet machine with the two stripes you refer to. Here is one that Bob Pearson has posted on his web site:

In the Osprey book I mentioned above the stripes do not exist in any of the illustrated profiles of Udet's machine, nor have I seen a photograph that actually depicted them. The chevron on the tail surface IS however present in every photo I have seen of his machines. I wonder if the stripes are not simply "artistic expression" ?

Jagdpanzer · 22 January 2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paule

btw...
jagdpanzer could you give me some more details about the thirt d7?

when did he flew it, what happend to the lozenge camouflaged d7? crashed?

Im also making skins for a flightsim... so I'm curious

Paule, the book Fokker DVII Aces of WWI Part 1 by Franks and VanWyngarden has Fokker DVII 4253/18 as the last Fokker that Udet flew, and the profile is dated as circa September 1918. This machine is stated as having possibly come from Jasta 11, and it is supposed its red markings might have been a holdover from its service with that Jasta. This particular machine was one of the BMW engined DVII's that were in high demand by German pilots.

As to the fate of the lozenge covered DVII Udet flew, I am uncertain. It may have been passed on to another pilot when he acquired the BMW powered DVII.

Mr. VanWyngarden often posts on this board,and he may be able to answer with a lot more expertise this question for you.

StephenLawson · 22 January 2005, 05:02 PM

Greetings Gents; Here is a bit of homework for your enjoyment.
http://theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16179

Familyman · 22 January 2005, 10:35 PM

Quote:

In the Osprey book I mentioned above the stripes do not exist in any of the illustrated profiles of Udet's machine, nor have I seen a photograph that actually depicted them. The chevron on the tail surface IS however present in every photo I have seen of his machines. I wonder if the stripes are not simply "artistic expression" ?

Take a look at the photo attached on Sir Stuka's first message. What is that under Udet's right armpit?

Yours Mikko