Eustace Grenfell: 4 in a day??

[adrian roberts]

Browsing the ace's biographies on this site just now, I find that Eustace Grenfell apparently scored four victories, including three Fokker Es, in one day, 17th January 1916. This seems amazing to me, coming at a period when the allies had great difficulty shooting down anything at all. Hawker got a VC for shooting down three only a few months earlier. And Grenfell was flying a Morane, presumably a type N which most pilots had the greatest difficulty flying at all.

Is there a glitch in the website information? Are we back to the Destroyed versus OOC controversy as in the BB thread? If Grenfell was that good how come he only got 8 in all? And is there any info on the date of his death?

Adrian

[Frank_Olynyk]

The claims were made between 0800 and 0840, January 17, 1916. Grenfell was flying Morane Parasol N 5068. The first claim was for a Fokker monoplane, fast, white, which I carry as OOC ("nose dive down ... 6,000 feet"); the second claim was also for a Fokker monoplane, fast, white, which I carry as f/t/l ("landed downwind", in a plowed field; no indication that the Fokker was damaged in landing, although one might expect that of a down wind landing in a plowed field); the third claim was for an Albatros two seater, which I carry as driven down; the fourth claim was for a Fokker monoplane, slow, which I also carry as driven down ("nose diving at steep angle"). All of these are noted in the RFC Communiqué #27. Of his other claims, I carry one as driven down (Sept 1915), two as OOC, and one as f/t/l and captured.

It should be noted that this is relatively early in the war, and I do not believe that the British had worked out proper descriptive terminology for air combat claims at this time. The Communiqués were classified at the time, and not available to the general public until the middle 1960s, so there should be no question of trying to compete with the Germans for shooting down aircraft (the German communiqués were published in the daily newspapers, and noted aircraft claimed).

I have no information on the date and place of his birth or death (a familiar phrase now). He was still in the RAF in 1924, since he received a DFC for service in Waziristan.

Frank.

[MattyBoy]

If you think that's good, take a look at Adolphe Pegoud.

He got three victories on 05th Feb 1915 !

I think Grenfell became a Group Captain in WW2, although I can't remember where I read this.
Matt.

[Frank_Olynyk]

According to my copy of the April 1957 Air Force List, Grenfell was born on August 26, 1890. He became a Group Captain on July 1, 1938, and retired from the RAF on February 17, 1942. He does not appear in the 1986 RAF Retired List, so he died sometime between 1957 and 1986.

Frank.

[normanf]

Grenfell came from Southend, Essex. Norman Franks

[Frank_Olynyk]

Norman,
Was Grenfell actually born in Southend, Essex? Is that from Air 76?

Frank.

[normanf]

Frank - Air 76 I think, that is why I said from, ie: there is an address but not necessarily his birth place. 76s are obscure on these things as you will know. Norman