Interesting RFC Ebay Item (6504583949)

greatwarpilot · 12 January 2005, 11:23 AM

I've come across an item unlike anything RFC that I've ever seen before. Undoubtedly there are others from the forum who have seen this auction and I'm looking for opinions on whether the seller's suspicion is correct about it being intended to top a flag staff.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tem=6504583949

Any thoughts?

Edward

12 January 2005, 11:44 AM

Hi Edward,

Topping a flag pole was my first thought when I saw it. It's size is such, however, that it could also be used as a topper in any number of furniture items that might have been in an officer's mess or a headquarters building. The reason I come back to a flag pole topper is because if it were to top a piece of period furniture it would not have a screw in the bottom, but a wooden peg, probably smooth sided. By flag pole I'm talking about an interior or ceremonial pole such as would be used indoors, not an outdoor fixed pole. I think it's too small for an outdoor pole. It would also make a very cool hood ornament for the General's 1914 Rolls (and that's almost as valid a guess).

Matt

greatwarpilot · 12 January 2005, 12:41 PM

Thanks Matt,

I would agree that it is most likely for a ceremonial flag pole. Quite a neat thing to come accross as I don't imagine the RFC would have done too many formal parades both due to the war and thanks to the typical pilot's aversion to drill and the parade square (or is that a more modern development

).

On the note of flags, does anyone know if the RFC had colours presented? If not what colours or flags they would have used on formal parades? I know that in the modern Canadian (and I assume British) Tradition, Squadron Colours are typically presented after 25 years. So based on that I don't imaginge the RFC would have been presented any, but thats purely conjectural.

Edward

wulffo · 12 January 2005, 04:28 PM

it could also have been mounted on a private car as an ornament/radiator cap/bumper decoration.

Jim · 13 January 2005, 06:55 AM

Most anything is possible, but I would vote for it coming off a piece of furniture such as a china cabinet in an officer's mess or perhaps from an achitectural item in a building used by the RFC such as a decoration over a door or topping a bannister or such.

The reason I am not leaning towards it being from a flagpole is that it would be too heavy (well over half a pound) and the wings are bent so far back which would throw the center of balance well off. This would make a flag pole really awkward to manage. Take a close look at flagpole toppers and you will see they are all pretty light weight and have their center of balance over the center of the pole.

I also am not leaning towards a radiator cap topper given the size of the mounting bolt on it. If you look at radiator toppers (they are called mascots) of the era most are made as integral parts of the radiator cap since the cap must keep the high pressure steam inside the radiator and as such there can not be bolt that goes all the way through the cap. Some have mounting bolts on the bottom but the bolts are small - not the the big honker on this thing.

13 January 2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim

The reason I am not leaning towards it being from a flagpole is that it would be too heavy (well over half a pound) and the wings are bent so far back which would throw the center of balance well off. This would make a flag pole really awkward to manage. Take a close look at flagpole toppers and you will see they are all pretty light weight and have their center of balance over the center of the pole.

A flagpole used in a building (say behind the General's desk or in the officers' mess) won't be carried around, so weight wouldn't be such an issue. A half pound really wouldn't be that much anyway, especially in the days before the invention of plastics and resin castings. As for balance, the wings are fairly slender. There isn't much weight out there. Most of it would be in the bulky center. Lastly, furniture of the period was wood and the various subcomponents were secured with wood pegs, not bolts like this. Of course, the photo makes it look like a really big bolt, but at 1" x 3/8" its really not that big. A bolt could be used on a flag pole, to make sure the topper is secure on those occasions when you do need to move it to a ceremonial location, but also on stone such as pediments or other architecural details (per your suggestion), or perhaps a large cast iron, bronze, or stone faced clock, such as might be in a mess or , more likely, in a headquarters.

Matt

FinnN · 14 January 2005, 01:26 AM

I have seen car ornaments like this (without the RFC emblem of course), including similar looking attachments. I think the sharply swept back wings also strongly support that possibility. Of course it could be any one of a number of others things as well...

Have fun
Finn

charles · 19 January 2005, 06:29 PM

It’s a car mascot. It’s 10” long with swept back wings.

Here is Lot 524 from Sotheby’s November 1998 Sale, also 10” wide, also a car mascot, attributed to Walter Samuel Lewis, CBE, who was a mechanic in the RFC 1912-1918 and later mayor of Birmingham in 1942.

While some had two holes and were solid and were clearly meant to be bolted to the bumper of your Astin Martin, I don’t think they all were meant to be and many could quite possibly have meant to simply have adorned a place on one’s mantlepiece or where ever.

I have a small collection of aviation artifacts called The Aero Conservany which you can visit, if you like, by clicking the link below. Most of its bits and pieces of old German aircraft from 1914-1918, but there are some early RFC and RNAS items. Here is an RFC car mascot, for instance:

And I’m not sure if this is a car mascot, so to speak, showing the AFC or Australian Flying Corps service wings, perhaps from a lorry, or if it’s from a hut or building. I hope to see it in a period photograph some day.

I hope this is informative.