Clerget Engine in Fokker Dr.1

willycoppens · 4 November 2004, 03:47 PM

Hello,
Is it known why a captured Clerget engine was installed in Fokker Dr.1 450/17, one of Josef Jacobs' mounts? Was it possibly expected to improve the performance of this aircraft?
Thank you, Willy

StephenLawson · 4 November 2004, 04:18 PM

Greetings Willycoppens;
The real reason the Jacobs started offering bottles of wine and champagne to ground troops who brought him a rotary with the oil still in it ( and prop) was that the Fokker Dr.I was being phased out and Jacobs was by choice a rotary engine pilot. Rotaries were getting harder to come by at the air park level. Larger rotaries were being diverted to newer aircraft and the remainder of the Ur.II Oberursels were being allocated to training aircraft in anticipation of the 145-160hp Oberursel and 160hp Siemens Halske fighters being tested and built. In turn these were being slated for home defense units with only a few examples going to frontline units. The Fokker D.VII was designated as a standard fighter aircraft if not by decree then by sheer contract numbers. The plus for Jacobs was the increased horsepower but in most cases he was installing a 'used' engine that may not have been upto factory specs.

willycoppens · 4 November 2004, 05:00 PM

Dear Stephen Lawson,
Many thanks for your concise reply. Since Josef Jacobs was a "rotary engine man", it would help explain his preference for the Fokker Dr.1, even after the Fokker DVII was available. A myth, perhaps, but didn't Jacobs have at least one Fokker DVII at his disposal?
Willy

Barker · 4 November 2004, 05:34 PM

Yes.

And all black.

With plain, white crosses.

And still flew the Dr.

willycoppens · 4 November 2004, 07:58 PM

Barker,
Do photographs exist of that particular Fokker DVII? It would be interesting to see if it sported white crosses on the top surface of the bottom wings like Jacobs' other aircraft.
Willy

spacecrow · 5 November 2004, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willycoppens

Barker,
Do photographs exist of that particular Fokker DVII? It would be interesting to see if it sported white crosses on the top surface of the bottom wings like Jacobs' other aircraft.
Willy

Not Barker but,

A photo in the first Albatross DVII Anthology shows a DVII in the Jasta 7 line up with the Jacobs signature motif. Can't tell what kind of crosses, but in the foreground is the two Jacobs DRI, one with white crosses and one like all other viewable a/c, black crosses with white outlines.

An aerial photo on the same page shows all DVII with again black crosses with white outlines and a close up of one shows again black crosses with white outlines on the underside.

This does not answer your question exactly but gives an idea of the general appearance of DVII in this Jasta. HIH.

StephenLawson · 5 November 2004, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willycoppens

Dear Stephen Lawson,
Many thanks for your concise reply. Since Josef Jacobs was a "rotary engine man", it would help explain his preference for the Fokker Dr.1, even after the Fokker DVII was available. A myth, perhaps, but didn't Jacobs have at least one Fokker DVII at his disposal? Willy

Greetings willycoppens;

Yes Jacobs flew Fok. D.VII 365/18 an early Fokker Schwerin built machine. It carried the crosses in the normal positions and a modified version of the 'god of the north wind.' Seen in both the Fokker Dr.I and Anthology 1 (Fok. D.VII)specials

Laserlloyd · 5 November 2004, 08:50 PM

I would like to add to the list of Clerget engines on the Dr.I.

Note: I have Fok. DrI 450/17 with an UrII #2813 (Jasta 7) Ltn. Josef Jacobs
Did 450/17 get a retrofit of the Clerget or your 450/17 really is 470/17.

Others:

Fok. Dr.I 470/17 (Jasta 7) Ltn. Josef Jacobs
Fok. Dr.I 485/17 Engine # 953 Accepted on April 24, 1918
Fok. Dr.I 527/17 Engine # 1503 Accepted on April 24, 1918
Fok. Dr.I 562/17 Engine # 1072 Accepted on April 24, 1918

I hope this will help...

If any one has any more information, please let me know.

Lloyd...

6 November 2004, 08:23 PM

450/17 did have a retrofited clerget taken from a Camel, in the widest distributed photo you can clearly see the spoon shaped propeller tips extending out. They changed out both the engine and the propeller. If I am not mistaken, the same engine was later placed on 470/17 after 450 was lost to a manure pile.

I see Mr Lawson refers to the famous Jacobs image as "god of the north wind" as I have seen others do, but to the best of my knowledge this 'god of the north wind' was a tag name invented by a researcher a few years back and he cop'd to it when questioned. Mr Lawson has a copy of the translated diary of Jacobs, what does JJ refer to it as in there, if at all. I was told he informed biographers in 1972 that it was in fact a "DEVIL". Is this correct?

StephenLawson · 7 November 2004, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkangel

'...I see Mr Lawson refers to the famous Jacobs image as "god of the north wind" as I have seen others do, but to the best of my knowledge this 'god of the north wind' was a tag name invented by a researcher a few years back and he cop'd to it when questioned. Mr Lawson has a copy of the translated diary of Jacobs, what does JJ refer to it as in there, if at all. I was told he informed biographers in 1972 that it was in fact a "DEVIL". Is this correct?

Actually Fraü Tatiana Jacobs said '...that 'god of the north wind' is what her husband Joseph referred to the marking as...' The simplified "devil' term was a quick decription to satisfy enthusiasts and newspaper reporters. I've not heard the story of the researcher. In his diary he terms his nickname 'Kobes' and Tatiana called him 'Kurbis' (German dialect for 'Pumpkin.') I have some inclination to believe that the idea characature is from a children's story book. It may be bogus but I have one lead. Small correction, we have the diary itself.