Differences swedish & austrian Phönix D.I

[DennisK]

What were the differences between the swedish & the austrian D.I's?
I just know of the ommited headrest,the horizontal stab(similar to the D.II) and the extra gastanks on the late swedish models.
Was the fuselage construction changed(i.E.:number of formers,etc.)
I have a three view of a swedish D.I. which shows the forward fuselage formers(up until the windshield) flattend out on top(not round),does this hold true?
thanks for al input,
Dennis

Hi Dennis,
As I see you're busy doing researches.
Did you choose a version yet?

Sorry, no infos.

Greetings from SFA,
Gregor

[GrzeM]

Hi!
The most important thing is that Swedes used not D.I but D.III planes! That explains tailplanes and upper nose differences. Later Swedish D.IIIs had that upper wing tanks and also higher fin. Swedes used also diferent engines sometimes - BMW I think.Earlier ones were Austrian produced, so identical to those in Austrian service (if we can talk about Austrian service of the D.III Phonixes at all).
Beautiful airplane, BTW!
Cheers from Poland!
G.

[greenknight]

DennisK,

If you haven't seen this, here is a link to several pictures of Ph. D.III No. 947 preserved in the Swedish Air Force Museum in Linkoping:

http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/AH/Pho_DIII/index.html

One way that the D.III can be distinguished from the earlier models is in having ailerons on both wings. I believe that the cut-down and flattened shape of the area ahead of the cockpit was also a refinement found on the D.III. Its purpose was to allow the external mounting of twin machine guns at eye-level.

Also, the D.I can be distinguished from the D.II and later models as it had a sort of triangular shape to the horizontal tail. This gave the horizontal tail a long swept leading edge.

A very good reference if you haven't seen it is the book "Austro-Hungarian Army Aircraft of World War I". Authors are Haddow, Grosz, and Schiemer. Its a comprehensive treatment of the manufacturers, as well as other aspects of early Army Aviation in Austria-Hungary. See link:

http://www.flying-machines.com/booklist.html

I hope this helps. If I may ask, is your research directed toward a model of a Phonix? I know two people who have built successful radio controlled flying models of the D.I. You can see one of them here:

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Polapink/CP/index.html

Regards,

GK

[DennisK]

Thanks a lot for your replies gentlemen!
The misconception was born from a 3view I received by email,which (falsely)depicted a swedish "D.I",I was confused as I too thought the D.III's were the first one's that were produced for Sweden by Phoenix.The only info I have on this 3view is that it was published in 1986.
Hi Gregor,I will be doing the well known marine scheme with the austrian national markings on all flying surfaces(like the J12 on the link greenknight posted).Are you going to build the Aviatik-Berg D.I?
Greenknight,I am going to build a freeflight model of the Phoenix D.I and power it with a Co2 engine,scale will be between 1:12 and 1:15.
The 3view of the swedish Phoenix I have shows the scale construction of the fuselage,which would be very doable for the model as well,just don't know how the construction of the fuselage differed from the D.I.
Does the book you recommended have this information?
thanks,
Dennis

[greenknight]

DennisK,

The drawings in the Haddow, Grosz, and Schiemer book do not contain drawings of the fuselage structure, nor are there photos of an uncovered fuselage (not that I could find anyway).

I also have the Windsock Datafile on the Ph. D.I and D.II (Datafile No. 31 still available in the US from Hannan's Runway and perhaps elsewhere from other sources, www.hrunway.com). I don't see photos of the uncovered fuselage in ths reference either. At the back of the Datafile there is a small drawing, reproduced from a Vacu-form kit of the D.I which shows location from some structural members from the area just behind the cockpit forward to the nose.

The Datafile in particular has quite a number of photos. You may get some insight into the structure from the examination of these or similar photos, as in some views some rippling of the plywood in unsupported areas can be seen.

The American Journal World War I Aeroplanes carries an advertisement from Mr. Heinz Linner of Vienna, who offers copies of original drawings for Austro-Hungarian and other early aircraft. In his advert in the most recent issue, he lists drawings for all of the Ph. D.-series. Several examples of his drawings have appeared in this journal over the past several years. I believe he has constructed full-scale reproductions of some of these aircraft also. His address as given in WWI Aero is:

Heinz A. Linner
Natural History Museum Vienna
Projektstudio
Burgring 7
A-1014 Wien
AUSTRIA

I personally suspect that the fuselage structures of the D.I - D.III were rather similar, but I can't support this conclusively. Certainly they were close in overall dimensions. Also, some photos of Ph. D-series are of aircraft with clear-doped wings and tails. Location of some of the structural components are easily seen through the fabric.

I hope this is of assistance. Some years ago I built a Hansa-Brandenburg D.I from the Peanut scale kit offered by Lee's Hobbies. I did not really build with the intention of flying it, and as a result built it a bit heavier than a good flying model should be. But after it was finished I decided to give it a try, and even with the extra weight managed to get short flights from the "Star-Strutter". I also reduced a plan of the Aviatik D.I that was published in the US publication "Model Builder" by 50% to obtain a Peanut scale size model. I made a few parts for it, but did not progress too far. I hope to get back to it one day as its another elegant airplane in my opinion.

Regards,

GK

[DennisK]

Thanks for the info greenknight!
I live in Vienna and will contact Mr.Linner about the drawings.
Where any prices mentioned in the offer?
Will get the Datafile as well.
I have the plan for the H.-Brandenburg D.I. as well,did you have any problems balancing it ?
The Aviatik D.I.'s a great crate ,we have one at the Technical Museum in Vienna,go for it! B)
Dennis

Dennis,

glad to see you found a lot of input.
Looking forward to see it materialize.

As soon as I finished my current projects
(one on the board, one in the queue), I'll
start the Aviatik D.I, apparently from the same
plan greenknight used.

Do you know what the lantern-like device on top
of the radiator of the D.I served for?

Regards,
Gregor

[greenknight]

gregorw,

The Aviatik plan I have is by Bill Noonan. It was published at about 66cm span. It is a very nice plan I think. It looks to be pretty accurate, although I have not checked it against reference sources. A lot has been published on Austro-Hungarian airplanes since the mid-80's.

I am thinking that the "lantern" device on top of the radiator may be some sort of condenser for the cooling system, but I am not sure about this. My references show some pretty good pictures of it however; both the Haddow, Grosz, and Schiemer book that I mentioned above and Windsock Datafile Number 45, which was written by Mr. Grosz.

The cylindrical part has cooling passages like the front of the radiator. It appears to be topped by a radiator cap from the top of which there is a small curved tube ( perhaps a pressure relief tube?). Perhaps some other member can elaborate on this.

I think at one time an Austrian historic aviation society may have published a book on the Aviatik D.I, and Mr. Linner also has Aviatik drawings listed.

You are perhaps aware that several manufacturers in Austria and Hungary produced the Av. D.I. There were several variations of the airplane produced during its manufacture. Some had radiators on the fuselage sides instead of at the nose, and others had it mounted in the upper wing. Later aircraft had strengthened wings which had many more (perhaps double) the amount of ribs, after the wings proved weak in service use. Just about every variant of color scheme used on Austro-Hungarian WWI airplanes during the war can be found on the Aviatik D.I; plain-finish, leaf-mottle, streaked, painted lozenges of various patterns, serrated bands, and wavy bands. Also, somewhat like the Phonix fighters later versions had the forward cowling cut down, and the guns repositioned for better access in flight.

Perhaps I've told you what you already know, but I find the Berg Scout an elegant airplane and have admired it for years. Very Best of Luck on your model project; it may inspire me to start work again on mine when I get a few projects off the bench.

GK

greenknight,

it's the same plan we're talking about. I agree with you, it's
very well designed, although building it will be a challenge (for me).

Since my bench is occupied as well at the moment, there's enough time
to worry about "lanterns" and thinking about which one of the numerous
variations to do.
I'll keep you posted.

I saw a book "Aviatik D.I & D.II" from "japo-publishing (CZ)", do you
know if it's worth the $?

Btw, if you return to building Peanuts one day, have a look at
SFA, you'll get a lot of advice and inspiration there.

Thanks for the input!

Regards,
Gregor