Color confirmation

[Alan]

I am perusing a History of the 1st Pursuit Group that was done by a SSgt John DesHetler, 1st Fighter Wing History Office at Langley AFB in Virgina and it mentions the following Group order. I was wondering about the accuracy of this history and Group order.

The order was issued on June 28, 1918 after the 1st PG moved to Touquin

-GROUP - Instructions received with reference to reporting any of tie following German Air Units if observed on this front:
-1st Pursuit Squadron (Richthofen) believed to be on Somme Front, consisting of 4th -Pursuit Flight (Sky-blue tails), 6th Pursuit Flight (Yellow Tail), 10th Pursuit Flight (White and Blue Tails), and 11th Pursuit Flight (Black Fuselage and Tail). One other flight of the squadron (It is not known which) has tail planes painted in black and white stripes; further one or more machines of the squadron are painted completely red in imitation of Richthofen .
-8th Pursuit Squadron (Captain Schleich) believed to be in Carrbrai Area, consisting of 23rd (Bavarian), Z5th (Bavarian) and 59th Pursuit Flights. Marking is a long "VEE" on the top plane, the apex being over the leading edge of the center section; and on the bottom surface of the lower plane a black line on either side of the fuselage running from the inner corner of the leading edge diagonally across the plane, thus representing the arms of a "VEE".
-28th Pursuit Flight, machines painted completely black, believed to be on Somme Front.
-46th Pursuit Flight, machines painted in Green and Yellow stripes, believed to be on Somme Front.
-76th (Bavarian) Pursuit Flight, known to be on Somme Front, tail planes painted in Blue and White stripes.
-77th (Bavarian) Pursuit Flight, known to be on Somme Front, White rudder and Blue Fin.
-The Boelke StafFel (number unknown), location unknown, all machines painted a solid blue.
-Zimmerman Staffel (number unknown), location unknown, all machines painted in Orange, Black and White stripes.
-Number 3 Staffel, painted in Checkerboard, newly equipped with the Sieman-Schuckard planes, performance of which is unknown.
-Loezer Staffel, known to be on this front, fuselages painted a solid yellow.
-Number I Staffel, known to be on this front, machines painted Scarlet and Red.

[Gregvan]

Hi Alan,

I've seen other versions of most or all of this "intelligence" in other sources, some of which differs slightly from this version. It's obvious this info was gathered at various times and by French, British and American intelligence and widely disseminated. Some of it is fairly accurate, much is not; some is probably based on false statements of prisoners doing their best to confuse the enemy. It's also obvious that Allied intelligence had trouble understanding the difference between a Jagdstaffel and a Jagdgeschwader, let alone the definition of a Jagdgruppe.

"Jagdgeschwader" is generally translated as "Pursuit Squadron" in American sources, and "Jagdstaffel" as 'Pursuit Flight' - but even this is not consistently done. So to the order:

'Ist Pursuit Squadron' refers to Jagdgeschwader I, of course. Jasta 4 may have at one time briefly had at least some sky-blue tails on their Fokker Dr.Is-at least (I believe) sky blue cowlings and struts.

Jasta 6 did NOT have yellow tails; this is odd, as I have seen other intelligence reports that correctly cite black and white tails for the '6th Pursuit Flight'. It seems someone confused Jasta 6 and 10.

Jasta 10, obviously did not have black and white tails but rather yellow noses, etc.

'11th Pursuit Flight' - the reference to black fuselage and tail is surprising, and obviously wrong. 'Tail planes painted in black and white stripes' is a reference to Jasta 6. The 'red' machines mentioned are of course derived from Jasta 11 aircraft.

The 8th Pursuit Squadron (Captain Schleich) is an attempt to describe Jagdgruppe 8, which was indeed commanded by Schleich and did consist of Jastas 23b, 32b,35b and the Prussian Jasta 59 (from March to August 1918 ) - so part of that info is correct. The description of the white "vee" on the top wing and a black 'Vee" on the bottom surface of the bottom wing is actually a pretty good description of the unit marking of Jasta 35b, which was part of Jagdgruppe 8. As far as I know, however, this marking applied only to a/c of Jasta 35b and not the entire Jagdgruppe.

I am unaware that the aircraft of Jasta 28 were ever entirely painted black, though some early Albatros D.IIIs might have had individual black colors. The unit marking was a yellow tailplane with two black chordwise stripes.

The 46th Pursuit Flight is a pretty accurate description of markings used at one time by Jasta 46 if you apply the green/yellow stripe remark only to the tail. As we know, "Stropp" in the NASM displays Jasta 46 unit markings on the tail.

Jasta 76 was indeed a Bavarian unit and did apparently have blue and white stripes on the tailplanes and elevators at one point. Vzfw Karl Koller was captured in Albatros D.Va 7221/17 on 25 May 1918, and his Albatros was so marked. Maybe that's where this info comes from.

Jasta 77 was also Bavarian, and by May 1918 did indeed have blue tails with white rudders (or so I believe). Again, there was a captured machine- Pollinger's Pfalz D.IIIa 8284/17 (G/3/15) to confirm this.

The Boelcke Staffel is certainly a reference to Jasta Boelcke, which just as certainly did not have machines painted a solid blue.

The "Zimmerman Staffel" seems to be a complete fantasy by some fast-talking prisoner. There were a couple of little-known Jagdfliegers named Zimmermann, but neither were officers or commanded a Jasta, and the colors sound like an invention to me.

The "Number 3 Staffel" is, I think, a confused reference to Jagdgeschwader III commanded by Bruno Loerzer. The black/white bands which decorated the D.VIIs of Jasta 26 (part of JG III) were often described as 'Checkerboards' by Allied (especially American) pilots. The 'Loerzer Staffel' is again either a reference to JG III or Jasta 26. Jasta 26 didn't have yellow markings, but Jasta 27 (part of JG III) did have aircraft with yellow noses, tails, and wheel covers.

By the way, JG III did not-to my knowledge-have a great number of Siemens-Schuckert fighters, though a few of the first production batch were sent to that unit in March, according to the SSW D.III Datafile. This might be a confusion with JG II, which did have more on hand for awhile.

The "Number I Staffel" is a reference to Jagdgeschader I, and of course we know that Jasta 11 did indeed have machines painted partially red.

So there you have it. A somewhat confused but partially correct, disparate collection of garbled info. I love this stuff. We know that some prisoners, like Max Kliefoth of Jasta 19, did their best to provide false info to their enemy in regard to colors of other units.

It's evident from the Kofl.17 reports uncovered by Marco Fernandez-Sommerau that German intelligence had a far better handle on British Squadron markings than the Allies had on the Germans. Of course, German intelligence had many more prisoners to interrogate and captured aircraft to examine than their opponents did!

I'm also curious as to how well this info was passed down to the frontline pilots, and how much they knew (right or wrong) about the Squadrons that opposed them. Your finding gives a clue, Alan.

Greg

[Alan]

Thanks for taking the time to answer, Greg!

I guess it makes sense that intelligence gathering wasn't exactly a science, especially during this era.

Still I am wondering if the mention of one or more machines of the squadron are painted completely red in imitation of Richthofen might be referring to Udet?

For the record, this is where I got the information:

http://www.1stfighter.org/history/1918.html

It appears to be an "official" site if you link back to the origin page...

[Gregvan]

Hi Alan,

Yes, I suppose the reference to one or more machines painted completely red could have been inspired by Udet, who was in Jasta 4 of JG I. It was generally believed in the Allied air services (especially American) that the "Richthofen Circus" had red-nosed Fokker D.VIIs - which was true of Jasta 11, of course. This led to any encounter with red-nosed D.VIIs (which might have come from Jastas 15 or 18 or other units) being thought of as encounter with 'the Circus'.

The data you cite was obviously used by L L Driggs in his ghost-writing of Rickenbacker's "Fighting the Flying Circus", at the beginning of Chapter XXXII, 'A Regular Dogfight":

"Both the Richthofen Circus and the Loerzer Circus (JG III ?? GvW) were now opposed to us and we had almsot daily seen the well-known red noses of the one and the yellow-bellied fuselages of the other. Also we had distinguished the Checker-Board design of the No. 3 Jagdstaffel and the new scout machines which the Huns had but lately sent to the front-the Siemens Schuckard (sic), which was driven by a four-bladed propeller and which had a much faster climb than had the Spad. Further reports which came to us stated that the new Fokkers now arriving at the front had four insetad of two machine guns mounted forward, two as of yore fastened along the engine top and two others attached to the top wing."

Again, the "Checkerboards of No. 3 Jagdstaffel" was probably inspired by tha black-white fuselages of Jasta 26 which was part of JG III - also commanded by Loerzer. The last part about the multi-gunned D.VIIs gives an indication of just how 'reliable' much of this stuff is!!

Greg

[ONEALM]

Alan -

I have a hardcopy of this history. It's part of a running history of what is now the 1st Fighter Wing out of Langley AFB. It's generally accurate, but it has some mistakes and some bits that were added after the fact to fill in missing information. In some cases, this has helped, but in others, such as the 14 July entry regarding Quentin Roosevelt - it has just muddied the water.

As an interesting historical note, the 1st FW still has the 27th and 94th FS and they are still using the original insignia. Last time I was there - 1994 I think - the pilots lounge had some neat photos of the 27th's aces from WW I. It was really great to see the long history of the group and see that they have kept the names of these original members alive.

As far as using the site for serious work, I would say it's pretty accurate, but anything fishy I would double check.

The 1st FW Historian also had another history of the 1st PG compiled by a Major ALFORD. This one is unpublished and relied heavily on the work you've located. ALFORD takes some liberties with the historical record and I think this one is more inaccurate than the online version, more verbose and it uses some dubious secondary sources to bulk up the history. You can probably get a copy of it by writing to the base historian - I did - but again it's mostly a rehash of the stuff you already have access to.

Nice to see they are putting this stuff online though.

Keep at it,
Mike

[Soderbaum]

Hi

-Zimmerman Staffel (number unknown), location unknown, all machines painted in Orange, Black and White stripes.

There is a "chance" that this is a reference to Schlachtstaffelgruppe A(?), whos commander was Hptm Zimmermann...?

Perhaps the different Schlastas within this unit could have such markings ?, perhaps Dan San or someone else knews more...?

By the way, does anyone have the first name of this Zimmermann..?


Gunnar

[Rick]

Gunnar,

Good thought. Schlagru A under Zimmermann at first consisted of Schlasta 10,17 and 22b (in March 1918) and later consisted of Schlasta 4,11,15,17 and 22b in April and May. I, too, would be most pleased to learn Zimmermann's first name. R.