Bolle and the Snipes

[spad]

On 4 November 1918 Karl Bolle of Jasta 2 made four claims during a large engagement with SE5a and Sopwith Snipes of 2AFC Sqn and 4AFC Sqn. Initial reports indicate that his first two claims were for SE5a and the last two for Snipes. More recently this has changed to four Snipes on the basis that no SE5a were lost. It seems clear now that quite a number of German claims are unconfirmed by allied casualties in the latter part of the war especially. My point is that Bolle was an experienced air fighter and knew the difference between an SE5a and some other aeroplane, therefore is it not possible that his original claim for SE5a were hopeful rather than accurate and that in fact he may only have brought down one or two Snipes on this day rather than the four attributed to him?

[Barrett]

ID problems were endemic in TGW and didn't improve a whole lot in WW Deuce. (In the Med P-38 pilots occasionally claimed 109s when they engaged Italian flying boats!) Even MvR, who probably saw more Allied aircraft than anybody, frequently ID'd FEs as Vickers, etc, etc. Therefore, it's not hard to believe that an old hand like Bolle could make errors in e/a types. As for errors in claims--well, we know everybody did that!

[JG1Schorner]

Identifying any pusher as a "Vickers Type" was pretty common practice and was not necessarily a misidentification. However, misidentification was very common to the point where biplanes were identified as triplanes and vice versa. The fact that a Snipe would be identified as an SE5a is not at all surprising.

[Soderbaum]

Hello Spad

I am rather convinced that Bolles first two victories on 4 Nov 1918 actually were two SE 5a. They could well have been shot down in an "earlier" fight with another British squadron (56 sq ?)

I heard some Years ago from an "Aussie" that the Australian already between the Wars (1930s) made research about this combat, and if I remember correct some Australian museum was able to receive complete records from Berlin about German claims this Day etc.

But sadly(or as in many cases) the collected material has received "feets" or more likely been stolen...and has disappeared from the Museum...

Hopefully there is still a possibility that this material will be returned by the "thief", and as far I am aware of, it has not been used in some publication Yet...

h34r:
Gunnar

Hi,

Another point that could confuse aircraft identification was that many German pilots thought that the 'S' is SE5 stood for Sopwith. I agree, this and the other points made here causes the modern historian much grief when trying to determine 'who got who'.

regards