Clear coating brittle decals before use...

[Lufbery]

Hi all,

Recently I read an old FSM workbench review that mentioned spraying lozenge decals (for a WWI German plane) with "clear flat" (Dullcoat?) before placing them on the model. The same review also mentioned using Solvaset to help the decals snuggle down.

The instructions are clear and easy to follow, and the decals provide the entire lozenge camouflage -- it's not often you build a model that is almost completely covered by decals. The instructions, though, never mention the decals. I suggest applying the undersurface lozenge patterns first, then allowing the upper-surface decals to overlap slightly.

My sample's sheet was fragile, so I overcoated it with clear flat to keep each item from coming apart as it was applied. Solvaset helps the decals conform. Apply the lozenge panels to the subassemblies before final assembly, and clear away the decal from the points to be glued.

At the same time, our very own Stephen Lawson has mentioned using a gloss coat for the same thing and also using Micro Sol (or Solvaset, I can't remember) to make the decals snuggle down.

A third tip I've read is to use decal fixing solution (that makes a carrier film) on the decals before putting them down.

The reason I'm thinking about this so much is that I'm soon going to start work on the 1/72 Roden Fokker D.VII, and I plan on using the lozenge decals that came with the kit to cover almost the entire model. Roden decals have a reputation for being a bit brittle and I'd liek to make life easier on myself if possible.

I'm looking for two things:

1) an idea of the pros and cons of the three methods listed above,

and

2) specific product names for the "clear coat," and "gloss coat," mentioned above.

I assume that Future floor wax isn't the best product to use because the Solvaset would fog the heck out of it, right?

Regards,

[Barker]

=Lufbery,Jan 29 2004, 08:57 AM] At the same time, our Very Own Stephen Lawson has mentioned using a gloss coat for the same thing and also using Micro Sol (or Solvaset, I can't remember) to make the decals snuggle down.

Well?
Can't do no better'n that!
Bash On, Lad!

A third tip I've read is to use decal fixing solution (that makes a carrier film) on the decals before putting them down.

HERESEY!
A hissing and a by-word! A caution! Dragons lurk!

The reason I'm thinking about this so much is that I'm soon going to start work on the 1/72 Roden Fokker D.VII, and I plan on using the lozenge decals that came with the kit to cover almost the entire model. Roden decals have a reputation for being a bit brittle and I'd liek to make life easier on myself if possible.

ouch, ow & zow.
Then do not use Roden. Eagle Strike, Pegasus, A/G, in no order.
But not Rodenia.
TSK!

I'm looking for two things:

3) Carry On! L'Audace! Toujours l'Audace!
Drew! Mon Dieu!

I assume that Future floor wax isn't the best product to use because the Solvaset would fog the heck out of it, right?

Not at my house (which is not on Mars, yet).
Gently rinse the area where Solvaset was used before coating over/final, etc.
If the surface is clean (alcohol?), it shouldn't fog or silver.
Subsequent coats may quiet it down as I confess to this problem in the past.
Rinse off the alkiehol, D.
Want a cool-ish tip?
Tint that coat of Future with a light ochre or tan and get a "quieting down" of any/everybody's too-bright loz cals. Looks very nice. Experiment off to the side.
You'll like it, Drew, of the Shy Approach.

[Lufbery]

Geez, Barker, I hope it didn't seem like I was bashing Stephen. I mean absolutely no disrespect to him! In fact, I'm hoping he'll chime in.

Anyway, I'm still curious about what actual products I should use. Testors Dullcoat? Testors Glosscoat?

From your post, I gather that using the decal fixing solution is a bad idea. Why? What specific problems might I encounter if I do that?

I'm determined to carry on with the Roden decals. Partly out of stubborness, partly 'cause I think they look cool, and partly to see if they're really as bad as everyone says.

Thanks for the response, Barker, on this and other subjects.

Regards,

Lufbery;

In my opinion, the best stuff to use to hold decals together is Microscale "Liquid Decal Film". I use it on almost every decal sheet that I use,including lozenge decals. with excellent results.
Micro-Sol works well on almost every decal as it softens and draws decals over highly irregular surfaces. Solvaset does the same job but is a little bit stronger than Micro-Sol. However be warned-not every decal reacts well to Solvaset, especially FCM decals - I speak from experience!

[Barker]

Drew, this is great - do your homework and push off.

One of the men with the most experience is Lawson and I'd take his word over else.

I have no impression you think otherwise, too.

A gift, it is.


Practice, Drew - and Murphy's Law until it sorts out.

That's the stuff.

[SteveS]

Originally posted by Lufbery@Jan 29 2004, 11:57 AM
[b]I'm determined to carry on with the Roden decals. Partly out of stubborness, partly 'cause I think they look cool, and partly to see if they're really as bad as everyone says.

You and me both my friend. But so far so good.

I make a lot of my own decals and depending on my mood, I will use Testors Glosscoat or Microsol Liquid Decal film. On kit decals that are questionable like the Roden decals, I'm using the Microsol Liquid Decal Film (I've got a piece of Roden loz drying at this time) figuring that they only need a little help. On my own decals I like the Testors glosscoat (#2936) in a spray can for a little extra protection against the inkjet colors running. Two thin coats are fine. You can go overboard with this and wind up with decals as thick as a piece of slate. Be careful. Both seem to work just fine for me in respect to flexibility and using setting solutions on them.
During the building of the Battle Axe D.VII, I made all my own decals including the loz and went crazy when Micromark discontinued their Decal Fixative. I tried a lot of products for topcoating the decals without much success until I tried what was in my drawer the whole time.

I have never got "Future" to work the way I wanted, But it's probably just me.


Salute,
Steve

[Michael]

Originally posted by SteveS@Jan 29 2004, 09:41 PM
[b] I have never got "Future" to work the way I wanted, But it's probably just me.

Then there was the purist who gave up modelling because there was no Future in it.....

But seriously, I would lean towards the Microscale, though I haven't tried Testors on decals.

[Lufbery]

Thanks guys!

Regards,

[THE GREAT WALDO]

Regarding the problems with brittle roden decals on Fokker dvII`S I found that washing down the wings with a really thin wash of acrylic varnish and the while everything is still wet with the lozenge decal applied I went over the model with a hot air gun ( BE CAREFUL NOT TO HEAT TO LONG MY UNDERCARRIGE STRUTS MELTED A BIT) it seems that roden decal ís heat sensitive and when they reach a certain temperature they become very soft and conform to most fine details

good luck!

[Red Ruffensore]

In my opinion, the best stuff to use to hold decals together is Microscale "Liquid Decal Film".

I concur Guy, I get it here as Microscale SuperFilm and it saved the Roden decals for my 1/72 Pfalz D.IIIa. I do use a gloss clear lacquer fixative over home made Inkjet decals, as the SuperFilm is an alcohol base and would disolve the tender InkJet inks.

Future is great stuff for clear parts, but I don't use it for a decal prep gloss, it's too fragile. It does fine for a final gloss, should one wish something to look that shiny. I don't, at least not in my aircraft.

If you use any Lozenge decals, I have found it best to use a gloss paint base, preferably toward the lightt shade in the Lozenge. The decals adhere better to a gloss painted base and snuggle down better also. As with any large decal, one must keep their eyes openfor air bubbles and nick them. I apply my Lozenge in the method called out in the instructions, so I don't have the entire wing to cover at once. Each Lozenge section is allowed to settle before applying the next. Time consuming, yes, but hard, no.

This is my Eduard 1/48 Siemans Schuckert SSW D.III using Microscale four-color upper and lower Lozenge. Lozenge on the wing struts was painted.

Red