Airfoil designs of the Great War

A couple of years ago I read a history of Fokker aircraft. The author stated that the "thick" airfoil, used on the DR-I, D-VII, and later designs, was the brainchild of a Mr. Reinhold Platz; welding specialist, no previous experience designing aircraft, and assistant to Fokkers designer. The designer passed away and Tony Fokker decided to give Platz a chance. According to the book, it was Platz who did all the design work while Fokker did the test flying. Apparently, the thick airfoil was not generally accepted 'til several years after the war. This airfoil supposedly gave better lift at higher angles of attack and gentler stall characteristics than the thin airfoils normally in use. Anyone care to comment?

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Tony:
A.R.weyl who wrote "FOKKER, THE CREATIVE YEARS" had it in for Antony Fokker with a purple passion and wanted to discredit him, and he used Reinhold Platz as his tool. Reinhold Platz, was never a designer, he started with Fokker as a welder, at which he was very good. At a later point with Fokker Flugzeugwerke he was put in charge of the testing department where he conducted strength tests on various materials and parts. When Tony Fokker closed the Schwerin factory in northern Germany, Fokker put Platz in charge of the closed factory.
On none of the Fokker drawings that I have, does Platz's name appear in the title block, he is not listed as the draftsman, checker or the designer. The thick airfoil originated with Junkers, and with Fokker's association with Junkers as a Director of the Junker-Fokker Aeroplanbau he became familiar with the thick wing and it's characteristics and applied it first the the Fokker V.I and the series of designs that followed that eventually led to the Fokker DR.I (V.4). Weyl tried his damnest to portray Fokker as a cheap conniving incompetent, Fokker was a very remarkarble young man who owned a huge industrial complex, he was the Bill Gates of Germany, far from cheap and very competent business man.
Blue skies,
Dan-San Abbott

[Darryl]

Tony,

A thin wing displaces much less air and has less "shape". So it is much more susceptible to stall at high angles of attack. The air breaks away from the top of the wing more suddenly and requires, all else being equal, a higher flying speed to regain lift. The benefit of course is that you get much less drag. This is important in building high speed aircraft but also when you have limited power available. This is one of the reasons why thick wings took a while to catch on.

Thin wings have notoriusly bad characteristics near the stall and this is partly why many WW1 scouts had very nasty stall habits.

Thin wing characteristics I liken to the difference between a Formula 1 and the family car. An F1 drives faster has better cornering etc but if you push it an inch too far you are spinning uncontrollably. The family car however is more forgiving.

Fly/no-fly with very little margin between is what killed many WW1 pilots. Add a great big chunk of metal whirling on the pointy end.. and...


Dan-San

Mr Fokker may well have been the Bill Gates of his day..but at least you didn't have to "close all the windows" to restart a DR1 **G**



Off for a few days holiday (first in 2 1/2 years)

VBR

Darryl

Dan; that sounds like the book I'm thinking of. The author made Fokker sound more like a user than a creator. I'm glad you cleared up the part about where the thick airfoil came from. Killratio; thanks for your input also. Apparently thin airfoils really start to come into their own as you approach the sound barrier. At low and mid range subsonic it looks like the thick airfoil gives you more for your money.

[Barrett]

Thick airfoils remained on combat aircraft through WW II. Best examples are the Hawker Hurricane and Yak series, both noted for stability and maneuverability. The VMaxes claimed for the Yaks are propaganda. The Yak 9, ferinstance, was a low to medium-level fighter with a plain-jane 1200 hp engine that we are expected to believe was as fast as a P-51 with a 1500 hp supercharged engine at altitude. Independent tests indicate that the Yak actually made c. 360 mph at 16,000 ft compared to the Mustang's 430 at 25,000.
However, the Yaks were excellent dogfighters produced in large numbers, largely handicapped by anemic armament. The most successful USSR fighter pilots generally flew LaGGs or Airacobras.