The Black Flight

The Facts:

Collishaw - N5490 April28 to June 7
N5492 June 15 to July 21
N533 July 27 " Black Maria * "

Alexander N5487 June 6to July 12"Black Prince"

Reid N5483 "Black Roger" June1 to July 28

Sharman N6307 "Black Death" June 6 to July 12

Nash N5492 May21 to June 7


* I have only identified N533 as "Black Maria" as there is a good photo of this aircraft in the Windsock International Datafile on the Sopwith Triplane.
I have been led to believe N5492 was the first "Black Maria" but I have never seen a photo . As can be seen Nash used N5492 for all his "kills"
while Collishaw used N5490 in the same time period. Collishaw only used N5492 after Nash. I thought maybe Nash was flying N5490 when he was shot down but he was flying N5376 on that date. I have given these dates for each aircraft as I am certain this is what was mostly used for these time periods.

My questions are:

1) Are there any photos of N5492 bearing the legend of "Black Maria"
2) Are there any photos of an Black Flight triplanes? (except for N533)
3) Beginning June 10 1917 ,Naval 10 began painting the first letter of the assigned pilot's last name in white capitol letters behind roundel and repeated sometimes on top decking behind pilot. This apparently was not applied to all aircraft. I understand Sharman's triplane had the letter S painted on it. I also know that N533 hd large letter C on the fuselage and horizontal stab for Collishaw painted on it . How about the rest of the Black Flight.
I have the painting of Mel Alexander's Black Prince" done a number of years ago for CAHS. (I hope the artist researched the Tripe better that the poor example of an Albatros that Alexander is fighting(only a colours and markings and equipment type of guy would notice this)) This painting shows no pilot identification letters. Who is right?
4) What aircraft number was assigned to "Black Sheep"

Speculation: After Nash was shot down, and for reasons unknown to us, Collishaw took over N5492 and painted out "Black Sheep" and repainted "Black Maria"

The information I have presented came from :

1) Above the Trenches Christopher Shores, Norman Franks, & Russell Guest
2) Over the Front Vol 10 No 4 Article - RNAS Sopwith Triplane Casualties Frank Bailey & Stewart Taylor

Thanks,

Marlon Schultz

[MikeW]

Marlon,

I have been researching Naval 10 for many years, but information on the Black Flight is relatively sketchy. To answer your questions:-

1) I know of no other photograph of the other two Black Marias, though there is a nice shot of Collishaw's Seaplane Defence Flight Camel, marked as "Black Maria" in a pretty similar fashion to Triplane N533. He also flew a Pup, the first "Black Maria", when with Naval 3.

2) As far as I know there are no other confirmed photographs of Black Flight Triplanes, though I do possess a truly awful shot of a Triplane marked with a large "A", possibly Black Prince, but no proof.

It is certainly true that many of the Naval 10 triplanes were marked with a large letter behind the fuselage cockade, not always the pilots surname. I can verify "K" (Kent), "H" (Holcroft), "C" (Collishaw), "A", "B", and "Q" (possibly Quintin Shirrif). I have also heard the rumours for "S" for Sharman.

3) Black Sheep was serial N5376, with Naval 10 from 17/6/17 to 25/6/17 - not long. I'm sure you know Nash was bagged by Karl Allmenroeder of Jasta 11.

Regarding your speculation, You should remember that Collishaw flew many Triplanes whilst with Naval 10, not just the 3 Black Maria's and N5492. He didn't have time to get them all personnally marked - sometimes he just had to take what was serviceable.

One final thought - don't forget the unsung 6th member of B Flight, Englishman Desmond Fitzgibbon, more the flight's reserve I suppose, but a valuable member nevertheless.


VBR


MikeW

[stephen]

FWIW, I never asked him about markings at all, but Mel spoke in detail about the fight depicted in the painting that you referred to. He said that he did not see it until it was finished, and his only criticism was the relative positions of the planes to each other. He said that by the time he flew forward far enough to reach the same horizontal position as his victim, the Albatros was much farther below him vertically and going nearly straight down with the engine on. He said that otherwise he liked the painting and that it was very accurate. Now I'm sorry I didn't pursue the markings thing with him. As you guys probably know, Mel didn't name his own plane.

[MikeW]

Stephen,

I get the impression that Mel didn't feel too happy about non-standard markings - despite what has been written in several books, I believe Mel never ever flew in a striped camel. I have one photograph of one of his camels during the stripey period and apart from regulation squadron markings and the Flight letter "C" there's nothing unorthodox at all.

Going back to the triplane markings, I have read several first hand accounts of the markings in articles written by Ray Collishaw, and he never refers to the large letter "C" behind the cockade.

Memory is a funny thing! A friend interviewed numerous WW1 pilots in the 50's and 60's, and he always asked about their markings - quite often they would say that their aircraft carried no distinctive number or letter, and they would be quite astonished when he showed them photographic evidence that it did!

He asked one ex-pilot how he recognised his own plane if it didn't carry an identification number - the chap said he knew it was his aircraft because his ground crew would be standing by it.

VBR

MikeW

Thanks very much for responding.As to the identification of the tripe lettered "Q", the tripe article in Over the Front I mentioned has a picture of the wreak. It says it was shot down on 24 June 1917 and that its assigned pilot was named Robert Saunders. The photo caption goes on to say he used "Q" as Sharman was already using "S".

As one who is interested in the aircraft,and colours and markings of all the combatants,
I noticed the flaws in the Albatros depicted in the "Black Prince" painting.

Does anyone know the fate of N5490 ?

I have also wondered why Nash would stop using N5492, an aircraft he was successfull with and one whose quirks he would be familar with. I understand aircraft replacement was nessesary
but N5492 was then used by Collishaw to score 99% of the rest of his Tripe "kills"
I would imagine one could depict any one of the Black Flight aircraft with the pilots initial and one could not be proved wrong.

[MikeW]

Marlon,

You are right about Saunders being shot down in N5358 "Q", however, several other pilots flew this aircraft including FSL CRM Prewitt who pranged it on the 14th June 1917. I simply surmised that Shirrif might have been the originator of the "Q" because of his unusual christian name.

N5490 was crashed by Collishaw at Droglandt on the 8th June 1917 - after repair at the depot, it passed to 9(N) where FL AL Whealy downed two Albatros DV's. It then passed to 1(N) with an Albatros DV falling OOC to FSL MacMillan.

MacMillan made a forced landing in N5490, in enemy territory on 19th September 1917, being taken POW. He was claimed by Vzfw Kosmahl of Jasta 26.

Quite a history!!

VBR


MikeW

[stephen]

Marlon, to answer your posts and emails at once:

I think the fate of N5490 has already been posted. I would also highly recommend Haddington's "The Fighting Triplanes" as a tremendous source of info on many of the 144 or so Tripes, including the fate of many of them in an index in the back (if memory serves).

No, I'm not Candian... I'm an American with a great respect for what Canadian flyers accomplished in the war, a few of whom I was lucky to correspond with.

Mel told me that the fight in the painting took place in July of '17, but he never said what day. He scored 5 victories in July; the first two being DIII's on the 6th (wasn't the plane in the painting a DIII? or a DV?). Mel's log book says that in his first victory that day, he clearly saw the pilot slump over after being hit (which also jives with what he told me - he said he opened fire from less than 100 feet and the entire action lasted four seconds, and he was so close he watched the pilot fall on his stick). If the plane in the painting is a DIII (its not in front of me now), then it happened at 1100 hrs over Deulemont at between 10 and 12,000 feet, and his second victory, which occured seconds later, was less definate. His log book says he "drove it down into sideslip and nosedive," and he did not (at least in his log book) consider it a certain victory at the time. He was too busy avoiding two more Albs that had just attacked him. He later told me that the "sky was lousy with Huns" that day, and as soon as he could get out of one fight he found himself in another.

If the painting shows a DV, then disregard the above and please tell me. Combining Mel's letters, log book and victory list, I'm sure I can pinpoint the action for you. Hope that helps.

Stephen
The Albatros is definately a D.III model. What I found wrong with the painting is that the D.III appears to me to have a centre line radiator. This would mean an Albatros from the first production run. The end of the first production run and all Albatros fighters from then on had the radiator ofset to the starboard. The rudder is of the style used by the parent Albatros factory. The 2nd Albatros factory, known as O.A.W. used a different style rudder like the rudder on Albatros D.V/Va fighters. O.A.W. also never used the centre line radiator.

Being from the parent company and depicting and aircraft from the first run it would never of had lozenge fabric wings and rudder. The rudder would most likely would have clear doped. The wings would have been painted originally in Pale Green, Red Brown , and Dark Green . In April the Germans stopped using Red Brown and the wings would have had the red brown most likely over painted with green. I have heard Jasta Boelcke used light blue in place of the red brown. That is all found wrong with the painting.

Marlon Schultz

I don't see it mentioned above, but you should read 'Royal Navy Aircraft, Serials and units- 1911-1919' A bio on each RNAS a/c. MANY pictures, some of Tripes including a s/n conversion of the French/British serials.
Good Luck!