aussies

I don't see what all the fuss about the australian soldiers are. They couldn't even take a damn beach in gallipoli and woulda lost to the japs if we hadn't saved them.

Why was he born so beautiful why was he born at all.

Yankee Hero

I assume you are just some dropkick who's trying to start an argument. I am an Aussie and proud of it and the contribution made by the AIF in WW1.

You dishonour the alias you use and I wont waste any more of my precious time on you.

[Ginger.]

Do you do lessons in how to win friends and influence poeple?
ps stop trying to nick my job.

[Billy_Bishop]

Yankee Hero?? More like Stupid American. It's people like you who make me feel ashamed to say I'm an American.

You know, we're not so great either. We couldn't keep the British out of Washington D.C. in the War of 1812. And we really didn't win that war, it was just a draw.

And if they're so bad at fighting, how come in WWI, they lost 60,000+ during their 3 years of involvement compared to our losses of 67,000+ in less than 2 years? Going by the numbers, I'd have to say we made more blunders than they did.

VBR to everyone else,

Al Lowe

Yank,

that's probably how the Soviets felt about all of their western allies in the Patriotic War.

Great American heroes like Clinton & Gore certainly did their share in the containment of Asian communism, didn't they? What a slap in the face to those in the military forced to serve under them.

Aussies were among the best trained and hardest fighting forces in both wars, and they were dragged into the first one not out of concern for security but rather because the king needed colonial cannon fodder.

Even though this is a pretty obvious troll, it is probably a good time to go over the achievements and sacrifice the Australians and New Zealanders made in WWI and WWII.

The importance of Gallipoli to Australia and New Zealand is, both nations were very new nations by Western standards ( Australia was 13 years old as a self governing nation! ) and neither had represented themselves on the global stage as Australians or New Zealanders. In the maelstrom that was the Peninsula Campaign the fighting men and women of both nations over achieved and validated their respective nations. Rather than being just being a fight on cliffside that ended up in withdrawal, it is where Australian culture such as mateship Australian values etc, came under the greatest stress, ie combat, and not only stood up, but proved to be the same values which would produce one of the greatest volunteer forces this planet has seen.

When talking about Australian and New Zeland sacrifice too, it is important to remember that both countries were at war for the full 4 years. As both nations were tiny, Australia had 5 million and New Zealand had less than 2 million (IIRC - can a kiwi correct me here? ), four years of fighting especially at Western Front attrition rates puts a great drain on the youth of those countries. Both countries had to drop divisions as they couldnt meet the losses their divisions were taking. The population was just too small. As another example, Australia suffered the highest losses as a proportion of forces fielded;

UK 50.71 %
Canada 49.74 %
Australia 64.98 %
New Zealand 59.01 %

But even though we think 50% of casualties may be low, 50% of UK forces accounts for 2.5 million casualties!

Another comparison, deaths per 100 mobilised;

UK 118
Canada 97
Australia 145
New Zealand 124
South Africa 51
India 57
All Allies 120

Frightening numbers. The New Zealanders also suffered the highest casualties per capita.



cam
AFC - http://members.nbci.com/pointcook/

As to WWII, again it is wise to remember that Australia had been fighting for two years before the Japanese expanded through the Central and South Pacific and Australia and New Zealand had forces fighting in Europe and North Africa as well as the Pacific. That might be fine for America with a huge population, but in WWII the Australian population was a mere 10 million. Most of the heavy fighting in New Guinea was done by Australians, Kokoda and Milne Bay were definate Australian victories which saved Australia being cut off, and Kokoda in Australian eyes is as important an engagement to Australia and the Australian Army as Guadalcanal is to the Americans and the US Marine Corps.

Much of the Australian history in the South Pacific is not as glamourous as the Coral Sea or Midway battles, but 21 RAAF and 453 RAAF were two of the few Buffalo squadrons which faced the Japanese through Malaya and Java. In January 1942, 75 Sqn RAAF was the only fighter squadron on New Guinea and remained so until March. 31 Sqn's Beaufighters and 22 Sqn's Bostons were part fo the Bismarck Sea attack, RAAF Catalina's not only spotted the Bismarck Sea convoy, but they also tracked the Japanese Carriers before Coral Sea. The RAAF's Beaufighters earnt the nickname "Whispering Death" with the Japanese troops. The RAAF at the end of WWII was the largest non-major power Air Force.

HMAS Perth and USS Houston were both lost fighting the Japanese through the Java Straits, HMAS Canberra was lost later at Guadalcanal. Even though you might be dismissive of Australian sacrifice, the USN werent, the USN soon after christened a ship the USS Canberra in rememberance, and IIRC there was an USS Perth too. The Australian Navy also named a ship the HMAS Bataan, in rememberence of US sacrifice in the region. Although Australia didnt have the US's ability to make good it's losses through production, Australian men and materials were there when there in the dark days when the allies had little in the way of manpower and machines to slow the Japanese advance.

On the New Guinea mainland, the Japanese landed at Milne Bay as part of the thrust to Port Moresby, two Australian Brigades supported by three RAAF Squadrons, forced the Japanese back into the sea. This was the first time a Japanese beachhead in the Pacific War had been defeated and the first major defeat of a Japanese land force in WWII. On the Kokoda Track, the Australians were outnumbered 5 to 1, and through Rowells Generalship, the Japanese were stopped before Port Moresby. At a loss of four months of fighting and 1700 casualties. Through the rest of 1942 and into 1943, the Australians and Americans campaigned through East New Guinea. Australian casualties were 5700, US casualties 2900. As another example of Australian strength in the South Pacific, in August 1943, Australian troops in New Guinea was 492,000 troops to the US's 198,000.

After 1943 with Nimitz's Island Hopping, and Australia no longer directly in danger of being invaded ( planned or perceived ) Australia's role at the front of allied operations was diminished. Australia had again taken a heavy toll for it's participation in a global war total casualties were;

33826 killed,
23059 POW,
180864 wounded,


In the war against Japan, casualties were double what the Australians suffered against the Germans. Once again the Australians and New Zealanders left a proud martial history behind, and in the case of WWII even more so as both countries were directly threatened and in Australia's case regularly bombed. Both nations over-achieved disproportionately for their size and populations.

That history all exists, even if you never see it on the History Channel in the US. One of the more complete Au Military sites is at;
http://www.iol.net.au/~conway/index.html , if anyone is interested.




cam
AFC - http://members.nbci.com/pointcook/

[Richard_Schrader]

Yankee Zero;
Hang around, you have a lot to learn.
Richard

Always one for trying to make the best of a bad situation, while I'm insulted (as an American) by the upstart that began this thread, this has been quite an informative review of Austrailian and New Zeland war history. Thanks to all those who posted! Posted something useful, that is.