US DH4 - Gray or Creme?

I know there is a "modern" interpretation that the early American DH4s were painted in olive drab and battleship gray. But in reading Percival Hart's history of the 135th "Statue of Liberty" Squadron last weekend, he mentions in a caption that the early planes were "creme" (and OD one could assume.) The history was written in the late 1930's. Could his memory have been corrupted or were these aircraft indeed painted creme? Were the Standard or Fisher planes painted differently than the Dayton Wright planes?

"Creme" is probably the clear varnish that they applied over the natural color linen.
Similar to the finish on early Nieuport 11s.
It is very possible that the entire aeroplane was this color.
Cher'o,
Lt. Dwight Rudder, RFC

The Smithsonian reconstruction and strong photogrpahic (and film) evidence
points to creme and contrasting color (drab;on upper surfaces including fuselage
top) in U.S. service; I can't comment on possible manufacturer differences.
Post war evidence apparently points to overall drab coloring but I don't really know that.(I have just seen some photos)

This came up once before and their is strong photo evidence that the two-tone and the solid existed together.

Steve

Thanks guys for your responses. My question regards the two-tone variant, specifically, whether the lighter color is gray or creme. From close-up photos it is clear that the lighter fuselage color is a painted coating, as there is no variation between fabric and other materials. I know from the Monogram book that there was an Army specification that that color should be gray, but, there is evidence to the contrary. The later specification that all planes should be painted entirely in olive drab was heeded, and so most of the later DH4s to arrive in France were monotone.

[wingstrutdotcom]

Consider as with all paints on canvas or linens that with a yellowish cream coat as base coats for fabric, the application of a coat of grey could in fact cause a grey/cream color. Or best way to describe would be a toned down to a flat greyish cream. depending on environmental lighting one could call it cream but in shade it would cast more grey than cream.

I have seen descriptions and profiles going one extreme or the other, either total grey or total cream. I believe the real answer lay in between.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Gary2seater:
The American DH-4 was painted PC-10 brown and creme. I refer you to "de Havilland DH-4 From Flaming Coffin to Living Legend." Famous Aircraft of the NATIONAL AIR AND SPACE MUSEUM 7, p.84-85, 96
Blue skies,
Dan-San Abbott

The creme wasn't a creme at all. The plane linen, which came in white, was applied to the aircraft and then painted with clear cellulose 'dope' which caused the fabric to become taut. Once dry, the color was an off white, and in a relatively short time darkened to a 'creme' color due to exposure. By the time most DH-4's were unpacked in France, the color had begun to darken and continued in service at the front. In addition to the natural 'aging' of the paint, the planes were cleaned with water and a cleaning agent similar to what was used to clean the Mills web equipment used by the infantry. This was hard on the 'dope'. Photos show where aircraft had taken 'hits' and the patches put over the holes are a much lighter color than the surrounding fabric. This is due to the patches being merely pieces of aircraft linen applied to the plane with the cellulose used as glue. (Therefore the fresh dope shows up as 'white' against the 'creme.) As for the 'drab', the U.S. gov'mnt tried to copy the British color 'P.C.10', which was a kind of cross between flat olive green and chocolate brown, leaning more toward the brown side. (P.C.12-used by the RNAS-was even more brown) The color that was mixed by the U.S. and became known to our manufacturers as P.C.10 was more on the green side-just a shade darker than flat olive drab. This color, in use, tended to get faded and lighten up some. And the fellow above was right when he said that planes began to arrive at the very end of the war in overall top surfaces' in all 'P.C.10'. (Undersides of wings and tail in clear doped linen-fuselage under in P.C.10) Both 'styles' of aircraft served together in some units at the end.(Photos show both in not only the 135th, but in the 50th as well.) Hope this clears the mystery up for you guy!

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Rob:
The forward sides of the DH-4 fuselage and the aft section under the tailplane were covered with plywood and was not covered with linen fabric. The cream color paint covered the sides and bottom of the fuselage, bottom aluminum cowl, radiator shell sides and bottom, under-carriage, wheel covers. fin and rudder balance. The upper surfaces of the wings, tailplane and fuselage turtledeck and the aft upper edges of the rear turtle deck were painted brown. I used PC10 brown to define the color. It was not grey period. When you spray paint to a clear doped surface it will will cover in the color sprayed. Facts, Gentlemen, facts.
Blue skies,
Dan-San Abbott

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Gentlemen:
I must add to the previous thread. The cream and brown scheme was use in the early production of the DH-4 at the Dayton-Wright Airplane Company in Dayton ,Ohio. Later production DH-4 aircraft were painted brown on all top and side surfaces. This occurred at least by the 1000th DH-4, July 31, 1918. All subsequent machines were brown. I refer you to "de Havilland 4" No.7 page 32.
Blue skies,
Dan-San Abbott