von Hantelmann's Albatros D-V

[Albatroid]

I just received my new Eagle Strike 1/48 decals for the Albatros. The diagram shows Georg von Hantelmann's Jasta 15 machine with 5-color lozenge fabric on wings, stabilizers, and rudder.

I have seen a photo of the machine that suggests to me that the upper wing might have been painted one color or even in the earlier camoflage, but I suppose that could be an artifact of lighting/photo quality. *The lozenge is distinct on the tail portions, but isn't obvious on the wings.

It seems interesting that the plane would have the Iron Cross-style insignia over the lozenge fabric, but maybe there was a a period when the lozenge fabric appeared before the switch to the later style balkenkreuzen?

I'm using the scheme to re-finish an Albatros that I later discovered I had painted incorrectly, and would like to avoid messing it up again! *Anybody got any advice pertaining to the wings of the von Hantlemann Spring 1918/Jasta 15 scheme?
???

[Ron_F]

do you have the osprey book on albatros aces? its got a pic from about the8-830 oclock position. as well as a good side view profile.

sounds like u might already have the book... as its lighting shows basically 1 tone... tho, near the right wing it looks like the 2 tone comes through with the darkened area. the profile has the lozenge on both wings..

fwiw,

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Albatroid:
The Albatros D.V with 5 color lozenge printed fabric was first used in the production batch of Alb. D.V 2225 to 2249/17, with D.2238/17 as an "at least starting point" and continued to the last Alb. D.V in this production order Alb. D.V 2361/17, and continued through the next order D.4403-4702/17. All of these Alb. D.V aircraft were delivered by the end of September 1917. All of these machines were delivered with the standard black "Iron Cross" with the 50 mm wide white border. The change to the Balken Cross did not occur until the order from Idflieg on 17 March 1918.
blue skies ahead,
Dan-San

[Albatroid]

Thanks guys! Astounding info Dan San! I was hoping my post would confirm the 5-color lozenge and Iron Cross insignia since it looks really nifty to me. Back to the work bench!!

[Gregvan]

Gentlemen:
Since I was a (uncredited) consultant to Norman Franks when he was writing the Osprey Albatros book, and supplied the photo of the skull-emblazoned D.V on page 39 along with much of the info on von Hantelmann, I feel it's my duty to correct some errors about this aircraft. I had always had doubts about the identity of the pilot perched on the fuselage. Due to the remarkable similarity of the skull insignia to that later seen on von Hantelmann's Fokker D.VII in Jasta 15, many have identified this machine as von Hantelmann's in Jasta 15 or 18, and so did I.I had my doubts, however, as there are very few photos of von Hantelmann. The only ones I knew of were 3 that showed him at some distance from the camera, in front of a D.VII, with a service cap obscuring much of his features. From what I could see, though, the fellow sitting on the Albatros D.V did not bear a strong resemblance to him. In one of his informative letters to me when I was working on an article about Jasta 15, the late authority Ed Ferko scrawled a note across a xerox of this photo stating that the pilot was "not von Hantelmann". In his usual taciturn style, Ed did not provide any evidence for this statement nor did he say who the pilot might have been.

However, when Norman Franks was working on the Albatros book he was eager for aces' color schemes and eagerly grabbed on to "von Hantelmann's D.V". His captions for the photo and profile were a lot more positive and definite than mine would have been.

Then, in his review of the Albatros Aces book in "Windsock" Vol. 16, No. 4, July/August 2000, page 6, Alex Imrie (a very well-informed authority on German aviation) said that the photo of "the skull-marked Albatros D.V shown on page 39 was taken at Boncourt in Summer 1917 and shows Leutnant Mendel - Hantelmann (who used a similar insignia) was in Jasta 18 until March 1918 when the Berthold 'switch' was made."

Since Alex's review was published, I ran across a detailed biography of Georg von Hantelmann in the Ferko archives at the University of Texas in Dallas. This was a privately-published booklet written by the ace's sister, Anna Louise Bardt and published sometime in the 20's. The copy in the Ferko collection contained a xerox of a very good photo portrait of von Hantelmann in civilian attire. Comparing it to the photo of the Albatros pilot, I have little doubt that they are two different people and that Imrie's identification is totally correct.

Thus, the skull-marked Albatros D.V was actually flown by Ltn. Karl Mendel in Jasta 15 before Berthold took command of that unit and switched the personnel with his old Jasta 18. Therefore, the D.V fuselage was certainly NOT red and dark blue as depicted in the Osprey book. Since Jasta 15 had no unit color or marking at this time (AFAIK), the dark color of the fuselage is anyone's guess. My own GUESS would be that it was black. I still think the wings and tailplane, and rudder, were covered in five-color fabric. That would still make a great-looking model !

Mendel was no slouch himself, achieving 7 victories before his death on 6 June 1918; Mendel was by then in Jasta 18, probably flying a D.VII.

Sorry about the misinformation I helped to spread. I hope this helps a bit.

Greg VanWyngarden

[Albatroid]

I figured that the blue/red fuselage was not a matter of debate even though the fuselage did appear quite dark and monochromatic in the photo. *You suggest that Norman Franks pretty much jumped on the scheme attributed to von Hantlemann in order to add anothe nice profile to the Osprey book. *Doesn't sound like his style. *Mendel... hmm, sure wish you had chimed in earlier this week since I already painted, decaled, washed, weathered, and clear coated the fuselage according to the Osprey book & Eagle Strike instructions. *Oh well, I guess I may still have a controversial if not totally inaccurate Albatros in my collection... I'm not repainting it again. * > :'( :-[ :

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Albatroid:
Unfortunately, the first error occurs on the cover of the Osprey Albatros book, there are errors also in the Osprey American Aces, starting with the cover and the same applies tio the Fokker DR.I Aces Book.
Great photos though!
Bluer skies ahead,
Dan-San

[Albatroid]

Thanks Gregvan & Dan San! There is always the potential for errors in data & profiles- us modellers just have to find out what we can from the various sources and go with it. I'm happy to know what the errors are, and that it was probably actually a black fuselage with a different pilot at the time. For now, I'm still gonna keep that Albatros the way it is, errors or not since I don't wanna risk the plastic for a third strip & repaint. It'll just have to be the "faux" Albatros in my collection until it bugs me enough to replace it someday!

[Gregvan]

Albatroid,

I'm sorry I didn't post the info about the skull D.V earlier, but it's been a busy week. I'm a public school history teacher, and last Sunday two of our high school boys were killled in a tragic car accident, and a third injured. It was a hard week, full of visits to funerals, vigils and counseling grieving students. I really didn't have much time to visit the Aerodrome site and post some obscure info about an 80-year old photo.

As it stands, I'm sure your model is beautiful and I wouldn't change a thing if I were you either. What you now have is a plausible "reconstruction" of what Georg von Hantelmann's D.V might have looked like in Jasta 18 (or later 15) prior to March 1918 . I just wanted to correct a long-standing misconception concerning a well-known photo. Actually, I don't know what color Mendel's aircraft in the photo was; black was only a guess.

Dan, my friend, I'm sorry you find the Osprey books so riddled with errors. I still think they are highly affordable, decent packages of info. I know that the radiator on Voss' D.III on the cover of the Albatros Aces book is in the wrong position, but I had nothing to do with that. I too was disappointed in Keith Woodcock's nice painting of Luke's Spad XIII on the cover of the American Aces book, which is contradicted by Harry Dempsey's beautiful profile of Luke's Spad in the same book! Woodcock obviosuly wasn't given sufficient info. I had minimal input in regards to the American Aces book, just giving Harry a few pointers about some of his profiles, at his request. As for the Dr.I Aces book, it was as accurate as Norman and I could make it, but it did contain our opinions on certain finer points. We did the best we could, and I have yet to see a World War I aviation book that is 100% perfect in every detail.

C'est le Guerre !

Greg VanWyngarden

[Ron_F]

perhaps those in the know could write down the 'errors' for each book and post them..

since i had to DEFEND osprey books on another forum...

they get a bad wrap with the Luftwaffe history experts.....