My take on Nieuport camouflage...

Dart · 16 August 2014, 01:20 PM

For my little Airdrome Airplanes Nieuport 11, I thought I'd go for something approximating the Verdun scheme. I used Ronny Bar's excellent profile, printed it on a color printer, and carried it to the paint store where I matched against their pallet strips as best I could.

Here's the tail feathers:

Here's the lower right wing, top and bottom:

My Verdun clay is a bit more orange than I intended, but I like the contrast enough to where I'm not complaining too much.

I also went with a "wavy edge" on the front of the bottom of the wing, as putting a blue border there looked too abrupt and somewhat silly.

Opinions?

AHC-ED · 16 August 2014, 02:01 PM

What a great idea and something we intend doing to our N16 scheme once we have flown it in Imperial Russian colours a few times. And also using Ronnie Barr's ideas.

sator · 16 August 2014, 10:27 PM

Nice looking camo colors, will be looking forward to see the plane when it,s all done.

jumpinjan · 17 August 2014, 07:45 AM

Could you point to Ronny's color plate that you used, I would like to see it.
Need to be careful and really take the extra time to get these colors looking right. Camo hues are not highly saturated. Is this latex paint that you used?
Jan

Dart · 17 August 2014, 10:41 AM

Yep, that's good ol' exterior latex paint.

I printed that out, took what looked to be a representative sample of the color, and took it to the paint store.

There's a lot wrong with that process - the profile picture isn't so much a profile as a great drawing with some shine put in and weathering for artistic effect. And then I printed it out using a home color printer on regular printing stock. Here's the first three colors smeared onto it:

My brown is a bit darker, but the greens are dead on the money. My clay is a bit too orange, looking more it was dug from Alabama than Verdun.

Besides not wanting a silvered Nieuport 11 (I won't disparage those that opted for a color that wasn't on them) or an attempt at CDL that I'd get wrong (my bottom surfaces are a bit too white, but I'll claim they're new), dark colors actually show up better in the pattern than light ones to other aircraft (at least I can always spot them better).

Plus I haven't seen a camouflaged Nieuport 11 flying around.

All y'all's feedback is greatly appreciated.

[edit]

Pics of the wing and tail feathers taken in full direct sunlight; like all things weird, when in shadow or indirect light (when a cloud goes before the sun) they're much more muted.

One thing latex can't do is effectively feather from one color to the next...I tried a couple of techniques and none of them worked. So it's all hard lines.

The good news is that in all the handling I've done on the rudder the minor grime and dirt tones the colors down; it looks more "realistic" than when it was clean and new.

The other thing is that conditioning the paint with floteral extends the drying time considerably, and it tends to settle the colors down. The paint really needs a good 48 hours before one can't manipulate it with a dull edge, and that in Alabama heat.

jumpinjan · 17 August 2014, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dart

I printed that out, took what looked to be a representative sample of the color, and took it to the paint store.
There's a lot wrong with that process - the profile picture isn't so much a profile as a great drawing with some shine put in and weathering for artistic effect. And then I printed it out using a home color printer on regular printing stock.

Well, when I painted the Fok E.V, I tested the paints on a 1/4 scale of the camo scheme FIRST. I wasn't satisfied and I had to correct them and spray a test sample over again and again until it looked right. Then I felt ready to apply the paints to the EV.
All of your colors are too saturated for camo colors. The latex house paint colors are mostly highly color saturated to make them "pop" or to make them stand out.
Jan

Dart · 17 August 2014, 02:54 PM

How does one "desaturate" latex paint colors? I'm not being flip - the written word can be tone deaf - I'm really keen to know.

jumpinjan · 17 August 2014, 04:34 PM

Add gray to each hue.
The problem of trying to de-saturate your hues, may take a lot of the gray, and you might be better off just getting the colors mixed again, instead of trying to fix the problem.
I would rematch the color chips again with a low color saturation in mind. And try another (a real) paint store like Sherwin-Williams or Porter Paints (PPG).
I found some photos of your subject, and the color borders are not sharp. It looks sprayed. Have you tried spraying your latex?
Also, the greens and browns are just slightly different tones. Try using just one green and brown, and change the tonal quality with lighter or darker gray.
Jan

Dart · 18 August 2014, 07:55 AM

Ah, hadn't thought that would work.

I was thinking of applying a gray wash to the paint job as well, just thinning it down to damned near water and spraying it.

Spraying latex has proven disastrous to me in the past; I just can't ever seem to get it right!

ONEALM · 18 August 2014, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Add gray to each hue.
The problem of trying to de-saturate your hues, may take a lot of the gray, and you might be better off just getting the colors mixed again, instead of trying to fix the problem.
I would rematch the color chips again with a low color saturation in mind. And try another (a real) paint store like Sherwin-Williams or Porter Paints (PPG).
I found some photos of your subject, and the color borders are not sharp. It looks sprayed. Have you tried spraying your latex?
Also, the greens and browns are just slightly different tones. Try using just one green and brown, and change the tonal quality with lighter or darker gray.
Jan
Like

You'll need to experiment with them a bit and I suspect each manufacturer has slightly different piments in each to produce their color set.

Most painters (art, not houses) will tell you they know the pigments in each color they use becasue they need to know how they will behave when mixed with other colors. A perfect example is veridian green and magenta. Most manufacturers use a gree and a blue-ish pigment to produce viridian and magenta is a red/blue combo. Mix them together, the green in the viridian grays out the red in the magenta and you are left with a greyed-blue.

So the pigment content of each paint will influence how it behaves when mixed.

I doubt you can find much detail on the precise pigments (or dyes?) used in your garden variety latex paint to get an idea how they will behave together, but a little fooling around should get you the results you are looking for. Just remember there are grays and there are grays.....

-Mike