Ethnic composition KuK Luftfarhtruppen

[Fliegermann]

I am looking for any books, articles,etc. on the ethnic and social makeup of the A-H Army Air service. Any help would be appreciated.

[bristol scout]

I can offer nothing specifically on the flying service, other than to voice the thought that as the man leading it was a Croat (Emil Uzelac), and with typically slender resources organised that force, with companies at Vienna, Cracow, Sarajevo and Goerz, it was probably as Polyglot as the Army land forces were.

They were diverse.

47% of the Imperial army were Slavs, of six different ethnic groups; Czechs (15%), Poles (9%), Ruthenes (8%) and Serbo Croats (7%) predominated. Only 29% of the whole army were true German speaking Austrians. 18% were Magyars --- which did little to foster unity where Slavs were!! The Army's final ingredient were Rumanians (5%) and Italians (1%)----who also would find their allegience strained.

Odd, I think, that this army is still looked upon with some derision----it performed with fortitude and great courage---due in no small measure to its superb officer corps, (whose composition, socially, was much more democratic than that of the Germans ---the great majority were middle clas or lower middle class---- coming, as often as not, from long lines of military history families) who had a very high reputation in Europe before the outbreak of war.

Sorry I have nothing that confirms the air service make-up to be a reflection on the Army in general percentages of ethnicity Fliegermann, but I see no reason why it could not reflect 'across the board' this way either.

Others more knowing will without doubt help you here ---and correct any errors of mine.

Cheers,
Dave.

[gustav_novak]

Hallo,

Sorry for just a brief reply.
Some pieces could be found at Jörg C Steiner´s work published under the Militärhistorishe Themenreihe series. I guess, in volume no 4, the list of "Feldpilotabzeichen" holders was published, and in no 8 the list of "Luftfahrer-Abzeichen" holders could be found. The basic stat on Fp is about military ranks, if my notes are correct...

Other source could be R K B Desoye´s thesis on the k.u.k. Luftfahrtruppen. But it is more about the organization of the LFT, if I remember it right. But he cites an old PhD thesis from the early 70´s authored by K Peter or K Peters about the beginning of the war.
Have not the chance to check it in Wien.

The list of awarded flight personnel prepared by J Steiner or K Meindl is a biased sample.

The main trick is that even the names cannot guide you. Some people with Czech looking names could be Germans from the Sudeten or Austrians (österreicher) from Vienna. And do not even think about the spelling.
Just an example: Navrátil is the Czech name, but he was a Croat....

I am interested in the topic you opened as well. So, let me know about your findings. Thanks.

All the best

Mirko

[crankcase]

Very relevant question to me as well! Interesting stats, Dave.
With the ethnic mix in Transylvania (Romanians, Hungarians and once-upon-a-time Germans) it is interesting. If I come across anything I will let you know.
marc

[micka]

jan safarik site is dealing great with that question. I believe he deserves an award for his research on this side. A question for Crankcase. I see you are from Romania and i wonder if Valeriu Avrams book Crucile negre can be accessible somehow. I am trying to complete my Romanian aviation combat log and i am still missing three victories and almost total of casualties ( I believe the number is 42-28 combat and 14 other reasons) If you are interested in giving me some help please let me now thanks
halsundbeinbruch M

[micka]

to the Bristolscout. I dont believe that it is Serbo-Croats but rather Sloveno-Croats while Serbs were fighting on the other side and could be considered traitors. Our Balkan mentality just dont take any apology for that (Allthough Stojsavljevič is likely a serbian surname)Slovenia was part of Habsburg crown for centuries ( I believe from 1653 on) and Croatia came into monarchy via Hungary and than Bosnia which was anected in 1908. But we must know that the monarchy was a huge amalgam of nationalities and probably the national genealogy sites will be the best answer
Halsundbeinbruch M

[bristol scout]

Hi micka,

No problem --thanks for the correction

Dave.

[crankcase]

Originally Posted by bristol scout

Hi micka,

No problem --thanks for the correction

Dave.

Wow, that was close, Dave... you don't know how close you came to getting your backside burned in this Balkan tinderbox!!!
marc

[crankcase]

Originally Posted by micka

jan safarik site is dealing great with that question. I believe he deserves an award for his research on this side. A question for Crankcase. I see you are from Romania and i wonder if Valeriu Avrams book Crucile negre can be accessible somehow. I am trying to complete my Romanian aviation combat log and i am still missing three victories and almost total of casualties ( I believe the number is 42-28 combat and 14 other reasons) If you are interested in giving me some help please let me now thanks
halsundbeinbruch M

Micka
I know a guy here who has a contact to Avram. I will ask him!
marc

[expositor]

hello all,

i was hoping to be able to make a contribution to this discussion, but i see my geordie cousin bristol made a very cogent and concise one already that
pretty much says it all. i can only add that there were in fact serbians in the imperial and, or hungarian services, but in a percentage similar to that of the italians. as an aside however, there were appreciably greater percentages of serbs and italians in the navy, and one could(?) assume naval aviation as well.

a good reference in english is rothenberg's 'the army of francis joseph,' which contains a good number of these types of statistics. lucas's two works are also good as general references as far as i'm concerned, though some may find them a bit too laudatory....

cheerio,
jim