Sopwith Scout and Camel profiles

[john_g]

I have just added some colour profiles of 66 Squadron Sopwith Scouts and Camels to my web page.

john_g

66 Squadron

[davecww1]

Sopwith Scout = Sopwith Pup?
Thanks
Dave

[john_g]

davecww1

Officially they were Sopwith Pup's but in the service they were also know as Sopwith Scout's.

john_g

66 Squadron

[Familyman]

Originally Posted by john_g

davecww1

Officially they were Sopwith Pup's but in the service they were also know as Sopwith Scout's.

john_g

66 Squadron

I think it was the opposite way around, wasn't it?


Mikko

[john_g]

According to Air-Britians Sopwith Pup the contracts for construction were let for Sopwith Pup's as doesPutnam's The Aeroplanes of the RFC Military Wing calls them Pup's.

john_g

[Familyman]

Originally Posted by john_g

According to Air-Britians Sopwith Pup the contracts for construction were let for Sopwith Pup's as doesPutnam's The Aeroplanes of the RFC Military Wing calls them Pup's.

Interesting! Was it RNAS, then, that discouraged its men to use the nickname Pup?

Mikko

[john_g]

Mikko

I can’t say I am an expert on this subject but there was Sopwith Scout used by the RNAS in small numbers. I think that it was the aeroplane that the Pup was developed out off, as I say most of this is covered in the Pup book.
john_g


66 Squadron

[mgtaylor]

VEry nice Thanks

Yours MIke

[bristol scout]

Hi guys,

Sopwiths were of course an admiralty contractor and 'pups' were used by Naval squadrons on the western front first R.N.A.S. squadrons 3,4,8 and nine----which of course became 203,204,208 and209 after formation of R.A.F.

In the book 'The Clouds Remember' Oliver Stewart writes---
"A minor comedy of officialism was enacted with the Pup. Those in high places were grieved to observe this name"PUP". They regarded it as undignified, frivolous, slangy, unofficial and heaven knows what else. So they found time, during the fury and trouble of war, to sit down and pen an order which called upon all officers and men to note that the Sopwith Pup was not the Sopwith Pup but the Sopwith Scout mark something or other, and it demanded that on all future occassions the aeroplane should be refferred to under that title and none other.

Everybody read the order and marvelled, and then referred to the machine as the Sopwith Pup.
So another, more peremptory order came out drawing the attention of all units to this prevalence of incorrect nomenclature. The aeroplane was in future always to be described as the Sopwith Scout mark something or other.

So I suppose that, and the perverse state of mind of the fighting forces when it came to language, both good and bad, accounts for the fact that the aeroplane has ever after been known exclusively as the Sopwith Pup"

Dave.

[Chock]

As others have noted, it was the Sopwith Scout, but called the Pup in reference to looking like the One and a Half Strutter had given birth to a Pup. Somewhat ironic since the One and a Half Strutter was of course rarely called by its official name either, that official designation being the Sopwith LCT (from the military parlance of: Land, Clerget, Tractor). The most famous Sopwith fighter plane acquired a nickname too, that of course being the Sopwith Camel, because of the 'hump' where the guns were faired over, although in that case, Camel was officially adopted as the aircraft's designation by both Sopwith and the military.

Several times throughout history there have been official attempts to prevent slang names being used for aircraft, and they are almost always completely ignored by servicemen! Probably the most famous attempt to do so was with the Boeing B-52 Stratofortress during the Vietnam War, known by many as the BUFF, aka the Big Ugly Fat F***er. There was official request circulated to USAF personnel to not call it that, for obvious reasons, although everyone still calls it the BUFF even today and the USAF have given up even trying to stop servicemen from calling it that.

Sometimes the military goes along with such casual nicknames from the start, notably with the converted, heavily armed DC-3 that became the notorious AC-47 gunship. It acquired the nickname of 'Puff the Magic Dragon' from the 1963 song of the same name, much to the annoyance of the song's authors and the somewhat hippyish group Peter, Paul and Mary, who performed the song. Neither the USAF, nor the Army officially discouraged the AC-47 from ever being referred to as Puff the Magic Dragon, especially over the radio, because of the supernatural connotations of dragons in South East Asian folklore as a hoped-for psychological weapon against the NVA, many of whom were poorly-educated and indeed superstitious peasants.

Like the Sopwith Camel, another Vietnam war veteran, the Bell UH-1 Iroqouis helicopter, acquired an unofficial name which eventually became official, that being the 'Huey' (from the military parlance of, Helicopter, Utility, One or HU1). It was so often referred to as the Huey by people, that even when the military designation system changed it to UH-1 the Huey name stuck. Bell even started officially marketing it as the Huey, the name being cast into the tail rotor pedal of later models.

Al