Notable Dr.I / Spad 7 encounters?

[Tim West]

Hello all,

I was hoping to find some information on Dr.I vs Spad 7 encounters
with a slant towards the Fokker in the outcome of the action.

A description of the action and the units/pilots involved would be
outstanding.

Thanks in advance,

Hi Tim,

How about a Fokker Dr.I and a Spad XIII? I have rather a good narrative of a fight that occurred between Ritter von Tutschek, C.O. of JG II, and a Spad XIII flown by 2/Lt D.C. Doyle of 23 Sqn, RFC on February 26, 1918. I can send you the article from OTF. There are nice pictures of the captured Spad with von Tutschek's Triplane in the distance. Let me know if your interested....

(I'll keep looking for a Spad VII / Dr.I combat in the meantime!)

regards,

Darren

[Tim West]

Darren,

A Spad 13 would be even better! I have seen some combat reports that list the craft as just Spads, so I assumed that it was most likely Spad 7's.

I have spad models in both the 7 and 13 variants and just by chance I did a texture for von Tutschek but the DrI datafile list him with Jasta 12? and in Fok 404/17?

So the encounter you mentioned would be great to hear about.

zoysgig@comcast.net

Thank you for your time

Hi Tim,

Von Tutschek did fly with Jasta 12 which, along with Jastas 13, 15 and 19, was part of Jagdgeschwader II. I am unsure if he was flying 404/17 on this day, as he reportedly flew a Dr.I with the serial number 216/17 on his first flight in a Triplane on February 19, 1918. I know that the triplane he used in the Spad combat had a half-black fuselage and tail. Maybe Dan or Greg can elaborate on the possible colors of this machine. I will send you a scan of the article, along with the pictures.

regards,

Darren

[Gregvan]

Hi All,

The downing of Doyle by von Tutschek is probably a great subject for a rendering, as there are great photos of both aircraft and von Tutschek's evocative account of the event, as Winged Warrior says.

JG II was flying on the French front during part of the time they were partially equipped with triplanes, and there are several notable triplane/Spad encounters.

As for Spad VIIs, on 6 May 1918,Ltn. d. R. Hermann Becker of Jasta 12 shot down the Spad VII (S4280) of Jean Chaput, the 16-victory ace commander of SPA 57. Becker later wrote, "My triplane was attacked by a Tommy (sic), whereupon my guns jammed. Despite this (he must have cleared his guns), I attacked him again and again. I repeated this until he went down over a forest, landing on a path between the trees." Chaput managed to land his Spad, but bled to death from a wound in the femoral artery before he could be hospitalized.

On the same 6 May, Ltn. Hans Pippart of Jasta 19 probably downed the Spad of Lt. Maurice Barth, the commander of SPA 96.

On 4 May, three Spads from SPA 77 were attacking a German balloon behind the Montdidier Salient. Pippart led a group of Jasta 19 triplanes down on them; Pippart shot down the Spad of Cpl. Thomas Buffum (an American in the LFC) . Buffum managed to land his flaming Spad and survived (in captivity) with a singed forehead. Many years later he gave an account of this fight which was published in an early issue of C & C. Buffum's comrade Caporal Laraud was not so fortunate; his Spad was shot down in flames by Arthur Rahn of Jasta 19.

On 17 June 1918, Sgt Frank Baylies (the 12-victory American ace of SPA 73) was leading his escadrille mates Andre Dubonnet and Sgt Francois Macari on a patrol. Baylies had borrowed Louis Risacher's SPAD XIII because his own had engine problems. According to French accounts, they sighted a higher group of four rotary engined scouts they assumed to be British Sopwiths. Baylies was climbing toward them to investigate when he suddenly recognized them as Fokker Triplanes, and wheeled over on one wing as three of the Dr.I's dived on him. He reportedly looped onto the tail of one of his pursuers, but the 4th Dr.I pounced on his Spad, which fell in flames. Macari got away, and Dubonnet's Spad was riddled but he too escaped. The triplanes were apparentlyflown by Rudolf Rienau and Wilhelm Leusch of Jasta 19, who were still able to wring the most out of their worn-out Dr.Is at this late date. You can find out more about this event, and a color profile of Baylies' SPAD XIII, in the recent book on Groupe de Combat 12, the Cigognes, by Jon Guttman (from Osprey).

Greg

[Tim West]

Thank you Darren and Greg. This is good stuff.

It seems that Tutscheck was flying 404/17 on Feb. 26th. The scan Darren sent shows same plane as the one in the photos in the datafile. Interesting how often they switched planes. ALso interest is the photos show the fuse cross field in white, and then another in black. Was this change over a day or so?

He was reported to have flown 216/17 on his first flight in a Triplane was on Feb. 19th, so seven days later he was in 404/17, which we have 2 photos with the cross fields in different colors. Hmm, interesting....... not sure if this is significant but interesting non the less.

I did notice the editors note in the excerpt mentioned that Doyles Spad is a Spad 7, the photo is clearly a Spad 13 though.


Also of interest is the May 4th encounter with Spa 77 and the Frank Baylies story.

Again thank you

[Tim West]

Well I have been looking into the Tutschek/Doyle encounter. I have found more photos of Fok 404/17 So other than some time line questions this plane is covered.

On the other hand, I still have a few questions about Spad 13 "B6723". It looks to be a Klenner(sp) built spad and I have some references, varied as they might be.

What in particular is bugging me is what is the metallic square between the access panels on the port side. What is it? Its directly under the cockpit so, it's probably not a camera mount. I would really like to know what it is before I try to model it.

Again thanks for the help.

[Laserlloyd]

Tim:

Here is a link for photo reference on the 404/17.

Fokker Dr.I 404/17

Fokker Dr.I 216/17

I have a note in Paul Leaman's book "Fokker Dr.I Triplane" on page 157 that 404/17 flown by Tutschek had leader streamers on both lower wing struts.

His last account from Greg V. W. and Norman F. (Fokker DrI Aces of World War 1):

On 15 March with No. 24 Sqn. he fell victim to a surprise attack from above. From various accounts it seens he was struck a glancing blow to the temple which may hav rendered him unconscious - the thriplane was seen to spiral down rapidly, and his pilots thought they saw it ma a good landing. Lt. H B Redler, the South African pilot that fired at the Dr.I, only claimed a probable, his fourth victory.

I am sending you a color version on 404/17 vei. email.

Lloyd...

Originally Posted by Tim West

What in particular is bugging me is what is the metallic square between the access panels on the port side. What is it? Its directly under the cockpit so, it's probably not a camera mount.

Hi Tim,

I am posting a picture of the area in question. I think this is what you are talking about. It's definitely not a standard panel of any kind. Maybe it's a patch, or possibly a personal insignia....I really don't know!

regards,

Darren

[Laserlloyd]

Tim:

2/Lt D.C. Doyle of 23 Sqn was flying No. B6732 not B6723.

Location Northeast of Laon at 1120 am.

Lloyd...