American aviator - Escadrille 131 - Carlyle LaMar Nelson

[BruceMeyranDavidson]

Hello,

I am researching an American aviator who served with the French during World War I:

Carlyle LaMar Nelson
Born June 9, 1893 (Utah, USA)
Died March 21, 1975 (Los Angeles, USA)

He served with Escadrille 131, Groupe de Bombardement 4, and reportedly received two Croix de Guerre.

I am trying to find:

his service record
Croix de Guerre citations
any information about his missions

There is also a family story that he may have been involved in combat with Hermann Göring.

Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Bruce Davidson
Arlington MA, USA

[YavorD]

Small bits of information can be found on the Albin Denis web page on BR 131.
Escadrille BR 131

[ONEALM]

Bruce -

Carlyle Lamar NELSON
Born 9 June 1893 in Manti City, UT
Enlisted in Enlisted Recserve Corps 15 August 1917 at San Francisco
ASSERC to 18 July 1917
ROTC at Presidio, San Francisco to disch to accept commission 8 Feb 1918
Commissioned 1/Lt. ASSC 9 Feb 1918
Stationed San Diego (presumably for flight training)
163 Aero
Participated in Aisne-Marne; Oisne-Aisne; St. Mihiel and Meuse-Argonne
Served overseas 4 March 1918 to 29 April 1919
Discharged 7 May 1919

When Nelson registered for the draft in May of 1917, he was already at the Presidio in the ROTC program.

Assigned to Breguet 131 on or about 22 July 1918.
While with Br 131 accumulated 35 flight hours on 12 practice flights, 5 Reconn. Missions, 10 Bombing flights and 1 Combination flights.

Though I have not found the citation for the Croix de Guerre, it is certainly related to one (or both) of his credited victories.

According to Bailey & Cony, “The French Air Service War Chronology”
12 September 1918, Nelson and fellow American 2/Lt. Newell were credited with a Balloon at an unspecified location in flames.

On 14 September the same crew was credited with a German Scout destroyed in German lines. No fewer than 7 Br 131 crews were credited with victories during this mission.

The Boal Reports, which chronicled the USAS crews service with both the French and British reported the 14 September combat thus:

“1/Lt. Clarence E. Nelson (sic) pilot and 2/Lt. James M. Newell, Observer

During a bombardment 25 kilometers behind enemy lines, on September 14th, the formation of 8 Breguet machines with which this team was flying met three patrols of German chasse planes, 30 machines in all. Sixteen of the enemy planes forming one patrol, the famous “Tango Escadrille” formerly led by Baron Von Richthofen, attacked the French formation. Three enemy planes singled out, and attacked, the American team. One of these, Newell shot down in flames, and an instant afterwards he was wounded by a shot from one of the two who continued the combat. A ball penetrated his leg below the knee. Newell continued to fire at the two remaining enemy planes until, after two more planes had been shot down by other members of the formation, the Germans gave up the fight. When the enemy withdrew, Lieutenant Newell improvised a tourniquet out of his helmet, fastened it to his lg with the observers control “stick”, and so lost a minimum amount of blood after the combat was finished.”

2/Lt. Newell was James Morton Newell from St. Helena, California. He arrived at Br 131 on or about 10 July, accumulated 14 hours of flying time on an unrecorded number of missions and was seriously wounded on the 14 September mission.

I found a photo identified as Newell on Ancestry but he is wearing pilot wings. Not sure if mid-identified or under what circumstances this photo was taken.

FWIW, I could find no reference to him being with the 163rd either during it's pre/post operational time or during it's operational period. He sailed home fairly late, so it's possible he was assigned post war as the records are quite sketchy post-11 November.

I am sure I can discover a few more tidbits, but this should get you started.

Mike

[regular122]

I am wondering Mike if that picture might not be Morton Newall of the 148th Aero. Looks like him.

Steve

[BruceMeyranDavidson]

Originally Posted by ONEALM

Bruce -

Carlyle Lamar NELSON
Born 9 June 1893 in Manti City, UT
Enlisted in Enlisted Recserve Corps 15 August 1917 at San Francisco
ASSERC to 18 July 1917
ROTC at Presidio, San Francisco to disch to accept commission 8 Feb 1918
Commissioned 1/Lt. ASSC 9 Feb 1918
Stationed San Diego (presumably for flight training)
163 Aero
Participated in Aisne-Marne; Oisne-Aisne; St. Mihiel and Meuse-Argonne
Served overseas 4 March 1918 to 29 April 1919
Discharged 7 May 1919

When Nelson registered for the draft in May of 1917, he was already at the Presidio in the ROTC program.

Assigned to Breguet 131 on or about 22 July 1918.
While with Br 131 accumulated 35 flight hours on 12 practice flights, 5 Reconn. Missions, 10 Bombing flights and 1 Combination flights.

Though I have not found the citation for the Croix de Guerre, it is certainly related to one (or both) of his credited victories.

According to Bailey & Cony, “The French Air Service War Chronology”
12 September 1918, Nelson and fellow American 2/Lt. Newell were credited with a Balloon at an unspecified location in flames.

On 14 September the same crew was credited with a German Scout destroyed in German lines. No fewer than 7 Br 131 crews were credited with victories during this mission.

The Boal Reports, which chronicled the USAS crews service with both the French and British reported the 14 September combat thus:

“1/Lt. Clarence E. Nelson (sic) pilot and 2/Lt. James M. Newell, Observer

During a bombardment 25 kilometers behind enemy lines, on September 14th, the formation of 8 Breguet machines with which this team was flying met three patrols of German chasse planes, 30 machines in all. Sixteen of the enemy planes forming one patrol, the famous “Tango Escadrille” formerly led by Baron Von Richthofen, attacked the French formation. Three enemy planes singled out, and attacked, the American team. One of these, Newell shot down in flames, and an instant afterwards he was wounded by a shot from one of the two who continued the combat. A ball penetrated his leg below the knee. Newell continued to fire at the two remaining enemy planes until, after two more planes had been shot down by other members of the formation, the Germans gave up the fight. When the enemy withdrew, Lieutenant Newell improvised a tourniquet out of his helmet, fastened it to his lg with the observers control “stick”, and so lost a minimum amount of blood after the combat was finished.”

2/Lt. Newell was James Morton Newell from St. Helena, California. He arrived at Br 131 on or about 10 July, accumulated 14 hours of flying time on an unrecorded number of missions and was seriously wounded on the 14 September mission.

I found a photo identified as Newell on Ancestry but he is wearing pilot wings. Not sure if mid-identified or under what circumstances this photo was taken.

FWIW, I could find no reference to him being with the 163rd either during it's pre/post operational time or during it's operational period. He sailed home fairly late, so it's possible he was assigned post war as the records are quite sketchy post-11 November.

I am sure I can discover a few more tidbits, but this should get you started.

Mike

Mike, Many thanks for your research and passing it on! Fascinating story! My apologies for the delay in responding, I've had some health issues that needed attention.

As it has to do with WWII not the Great War you may not be interested in why I got interested in Nelson but since you're an military aviation historian I'm thinking you may well be. Anyway, my dad, Warren R Davidson, was a B-17 navigator with the 398th BG, 103 SQ. His pilot and best friend was William (Bill) Meyran). On the only mission my dad missed, on a 15 Oct 44 Bill and and most of the rest of dad's crew were killed on takeoff when the B17, loaded with bombs and fuel crashed on takeoff. Along with my dad, co-pilot, Larry Paul, and Bombardier Bernie White, didn't fly that mission. When I was born in 1948 my dad gave me the middle name Meyran to honor his friend. Like many vets, my dad didn't speak much about his war experiences but I sure grew to understand how much he cared about his crewmates, especially Bill Meyran. Among the stories he told me was that Bill's father had been an aviator in WWI. But he either didn't tell me or I forgot that it was Bill's stepfather, Lamar Nelson, not his birth father, who was the WWI aviator. So my casual attempts over the years to find information on a WWI aviator named Meyran were, until recently, unsuccessful.

Before finding this forum, for which I should thank Chatgpt, I did find some info on Nelson's postwar life. He was a TWA pilot and exec beginning in the early (golden) days and then rejoined the USA Air Corps in WWII, and passed away in the 60s (maybe 70s?). His mother, living in LA, (Bill was a California kid) kept in touch with my mom & dad (in Massachusetts) for many years. They're all gone now, of course. Bill, LaMar, and his mom (Georgia Meyran) are all buried together at Forest Lawn. One of these days I'd like to visit them. Guess I'd better get going! Thanks again

I would also like to thank the others who responded to my post.

Bruce Meyran Davidson
Arlington Mass.

[ONEALM]

Steve

As you well know, the Workd Wide Inner Tube is often wrong. The pilots wings give me pause that it's Newell and another very poor photo of him in Soldiers of the Great War only bears a passing resemblance to this one.

I would not be surprised to find this is mis-identified.

Team work !
Mike

[ONEALM]

Bruce -

Happy to help - and take Steve's observation about the photo seriously. Upon further review, I am pretty certain that is not Newell.

You are correct, I am not as interested in WW II, but inevitably, one thing leads to another ! Thanks for the additional insight. There's always more to these stories so very much appreciated your addendum.

If you come across any photos, I'd be interested in that of course. I'm one of the Contributing Editors for Over the Front, the League of WW 1 Aviation Historians quarterly journal, and am always looking for new material, particularly anything USAS related.

Mike