Navarre's 1st Victory - Aviatik ????

[ONEALM]

Gents -

I'm working on a painting of Jean Navarre's first victory which occurred on 1 April 1915 and need some help identifying the type of German aircraft Navarre downed. It is listed as an "Aviatik" in all victory lists I have seen.

I see from the Aviatik C.I datafile that production orders for the Aviatik C .I were made in April 1915 for 6 aircraft and 3 ordered at an earlier, unknown date. So if the orders were made in April - and there were still only the potential for handful of these aircraft at the front, I do not think this could have been an Aviatik C.I.

So the question is - were there enough of the earlier unarmed Aviatik B types at the front for Navarre's victory to actually be an Aviatik - or was it some other type, perhaps an Albatros C.I which had slightly larger production numbers prior to April 1915 ? Or perhaps some other aircraft generially identified as an Aviatik ?

According to "The French Air Service Chronology", Navarre's victims may have been Ltn. Englehorn and Obltn. Wittenberg, but Bill Bailey does not ID the unit. I do not find either man in Rick Duiven's Casualties of the German Air Service, so this is a bit of a mystery.

Since the crew is listed as captured, surely someone knows for certain what type of aircraft this was and who the crew was.

Any help here - to make sure the painting is as accurate as possible - will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[Terrencejones]

Hi Mike,
Had a look at a few books and can offer the following.

French War Birds- vigilant,


German Aircraft of the First World War-Peter Gray & Owen Thetford


The French destroyed a lot of records after the war, probably due to the suffering they had endured. This along with some aircraft being identified in the press etc. as Aviatiks makes for a difficult task in making an absolute identification.
I would be tempted to go with the Aviatik C1 and in the abscence of any other account of the fight base it on the one from "Vigilant" The problem might be the defensive armament and seating arrangement of pilot & observer in view of the line "...the German observer slew his gun round.."
I'm not sure what is meant by slew or if that would be possible on this aircraft.
Hope this helps,
Cheers Terry

[Gregvan]

Hi Mike,

This aircraft was well-photographed and appears in several publications. It was an Aviatik B-type, serial B.120/14. Pete Grosz identified it as an Aviatik P 14, which was one of the variants of the B-type. I've sent you some scans by personal message email.

Best regards,

Greg

[Cigogne]

P 14 was the actual Aviatik designation for the aircraft internally. The B.I or II etc. were the Military designations assigned. It was the same w/ all companies, the Albatros company had an "L" internal designator, Fokker used "M" and "V" internally.

They still do that today. The Boeing Dash-80 became the 707. They still use the Dash designation on their current aircraft.

[YavorD]

Originally Posted by Gregvan

.... It was an Aviatik B-type, serial B.120/14. Pete Grosz identified it as an Aviatik P 14, which was one of the variants of the B-type...

Was it named "KARLSRUHE"?
Regards,
Yavor

[ONEALM]

Greg (YavorD, TerrenceJones & Cigogne) -

Thanks for the replies. Greg provided an excellent set of shots of the airplane from Roberts "Aus Temps du Carabines" which confirms both the type and markings which will ensure I have no excuse for making a mistake with this one !

FWIW, I was right with Terrence's approach until Greg came up with shots of the airplane down in French lines. I ordered the Aviatik C.I datafile but it appeared from the production orders dates, it could not have been a C.I

Greg also pointed out photos of this Aviatik were published in the Aviatik B-type Datafile - which I have now ordered...which will be very helpful as well.

I'll post drawings as I get things moving for comment and corrections.

Thanks gentlemen for the assist !
Mike

[Froggy]

Bonsoir à ,tous

Here you'ill find photos of the aviatik downed by jean Navarre for his first victory 1/04/1915 and also the german crew POW

Ses victoires
Seems ,for me, be an Aviatik BI in the three-bay version

Cordialement
Bruno

[Rittmeister]

Just a little followup from High Flew the Falcons:

Navarre's victory string began on April 1, 1915. On a routine
observation patrol over Fismes, just west of Reims, he jumped a
two-seater Auiatik from altitude. Sliding down toward his
quany, Navarre pulled up when only thirty yards away from
the surprised German-then steadied the Morane while his
observer, Lieutenant Robert, coolly took aim with the Winchester
and began pumping lead at the enemy. Robert's marksmanship
coupled with Navarre's masterful handling of the airplane
brought the Aviatik down under control after only three
rounds had been fired. Two slugs had pierced the Auiatik's
radiator, the third had wounded the pilot. Navarre followed
the German plane down to an empty field inside the French
lines, where both occupants were captured without incident.
Navarre and Robert were invited to lunch that day by General
Franchet d'Esperey, and shortly afterwards Navarre was put
up to sergeant and nominated for the Me'daille Militaire;
sharp-shooting Robert was given the Le'gion d'Honneur,
France's highest award for commissioned officers.