Info on A5658 Camel?

allanflowers · 5 January 2006, 08:32 AM

I came across some pix of this Camel F.1 at the National Museum in Pensacola. Does anyone know the story of this aircraft? (a replica or real? how it got US markings? etc?)
Allan
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53...20Plane123.jpg

Russell Smith · 5 January 2006, 08:50 AM

Hi AllanFlowers. Are you sure about that serial? "The Camel File" doesn't show any Camels with serials that begin with "A". Camel serials usually begin with "B", "C", "D", "E", "F", "H", or "N". The serial may not be authentic for that machine.

Russ

Scott · 5 January 2006, 09:53 AM

B5658 Sopwith Camel - 10 Naval Squadron - F/S/Lt. F. Booth

allanflowers · 5 January 2006, 10:29 AM

http://broadcast.illuminatedtech.com...p=109&sid=8079

This is the main site upon which I found this aircraft.
I realize that some museum aircraft may not be properly described. In fact one source identified this plane as a 2.F1.
How did it get to be in these markings? Didn't even Camels flown by US pilots still have roundels, just in US colors?
Very confusing but an attractive airplane.

Allan

TomVrille · 5 January 2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allanflowers

How did it get to be in these markings? Didn't even Camels flown by US pilots still have roundels, just in US colors?
Very confusing but an attractive airplane.

Allan

Camels flown by US pilots during the war were in squadrons (eg 17th & 148th Aero) under RAF leadership, and these carried standard British markings.

The markings on the Museum aircraft are post-war markings applied to Camels shipped to the US Navy.

The "A" serial Camels were sent to the US Navy, in response to a request by the Navy Department dated 11 July 1919. Camels A5658 and A5659 were delivered by battleship (USS Texas ?) to Langley Field, and then to Hampton Roads. This information is in The Camel File, but it is buried in the section entitled OVERSEAS MILITARY CAMELS, P. 222.

PS: I'm pleased to see that Snoopy is still on patrol at NAS Pensacola!

Manfred · 5 January 2006, 08:53 PM

My ILLUSTRATED DIRECTORY OF FIGHTERS says that the camel was used by Belgium, Britain, Canada, Greece, Latvia, Estonia, and by the Allied troops in Russia during the 1917-1921 civil war. No evidence of US uses, maye a really minor use (1 or 2 DONATIONS) of that type.

allanflowers · 6 January 2006, 04:04 PM

I received the following message via e-mail from Jim Kiger at Replicraft.
-----
Allan
The Camel you speak of was built by the late CARL SWANSON.
There is also a Hanriot HD.1 there ,both built by Carl.
Both aircraft were built using REPLICRAFT drawings but are built using
modern methods such as steel tube fuselage ,stamped aluminum ribs and
aluminum tube wing spars etc.
Kind regards
Jim Kiger (REPLICRAFT)
If you wish you may share this information with others on the forum.
-----
So, according to this, the Pensacola aircraft is a replica of the aircraft Tom Vrille mentions being delivered to Langley Field/Hampton Roads.
Everyone, THANKS. I appreciate it. I may use this scheme for a VK Camel kit I am about to start, which is why I posted originally in the models section.
Allan

allanflowers · 17 February 2006, 09:40 AM

I have noticed that no photos of Camels show the cocking levers of the Vickers guns sticking up, in spite of the independent information I have seen on the guns themselves, including the Williams Brothers kit instructions.
My RC model project is at the point where I have to make a decision. Any information would be appreciated.
Allan

TomVrille · 17 February 2006, 11:58 AM

The only time loaded guns would be cocked was in preparation for firing. This would be in flight, well away from the aerodrome. The vast majority of aircraft photos are static poses, often including associated personnel. If the guns appear to be cocked in this setting, it's a very safe bet that the guns are not loaded. The only exception I can think of might be the case of an aircraft set up on the firing range, and this would be fairly evident from the photo under study.

17 February 2006, 06:32 PM

OK, here are some links to historic photos of Sopwiths in the USN, with SFA No.s such as A.5740, A.5741, etc.

http://www.wbhaviland.org/at101.html
http://www.wbhaviland.org/at102.html
http://www.wbhaviland.org/at103.html
http://www.wbhaviland.org/at104.html
http://www.wbhaviland.org/gb018.html
http://www.wbhaviland.org/us007.html

Here's an example of markings relating to the aircraft's associated ship.

http://www.wbhaviland.org/gb049.html

It appears that "Camel" was a popular name and I sense it was used to describe 1919 and 1920 Sopwiths much as we may call a Pepsi a Coke. I've seen references to Camels in the 1919 USN ship launch experiments however (at least to my eye) the aircraft all looked more like the 1½ Strutter model.

for example, my grandfather was assigned a short while with the RNAS 13th where the record showed he flew a Camel. Later at GTMO he records flying a Camel off the U.S.S. Texas in 1919 however "Camel" was in quotes in his notes so it may have been a joke or a slip. To me the plane looks like a Strutter. Here's the image... maybe someone with better savvy than I can identify the plane for certain.

file:///C:/web/wbhaviland/gb038.html

":O) Willis