Long lived Mistake?!?

In the December Issue of Model Aviation, a letter from an Eric C Dolbey of Neskowin Oregon states the rudder colors of British aircraft have been modeled in the incorrect order. He states the red stripe was always the first color next to the vertical stabilizer, followed by the white and then the blue. All my Squadran Signals books on WW1 aircraft show this as the colors reversed from Mr. Dolbey's suggestion. Blue, followed by the white and red. All of the 1/48th and 1/28th plastic British WW1 airplanes I have, show the blue followed by white then red. These are Revell, Gavin, Eduards, Smer and Aurora models. Only the colored cover on my J. M. Bruce Vintage Aviation Sopwith Camel book shows the red first. Is this a long standing mistake made by the experts, long ago. I recall reading in one of my text books on WW1 Aeroplanes a description of how the films of the time washed out blue colors making them less dark. In fact, I believe Mr. Dolbey to be correct and all this time we've had it wrong! Look at a B&W photo of Pup or Camel, you can see that the washed out color looks more like a black and white red, then a blue. Ain't that interesting!!

[MikeW]

Oh deary me!

Your Sopwith Camel book from Vintage Aviation has a colourised photograph on the cover - I don't suppose that you have considered that the rest of the world is right and that some twat who hadn't got a clue painted in the old monochrome photograph?

For God's sake, the thing is colourised green - are you therefore saying the aircraft were painted green?


As far as British markings go, we still have access to many of the manufacturer's official finishing drawings, Navy, War Office and RAF specifications, and original fabric samples.

Trust me, the rudder stripes were blue, white and red, in that order.

Mr Eric C Dolbey is entitled to his opinions - even though they are complete drivel.

Look at a Spitfire or Hurricane, the red leads the white and blue on the fin. Did the Brits change the sequence at some point?

I thought this was an interesting development. I thought other folks might think so too. Mike you've come off as very hostile! I've been wrong many times before! If I am now, it won't be the first, or the last! What ever happened to friendly discussion?

Mark DeSchane

Also, Mike, I never stated the Sopwith Camel book to be god's gospal as far as colors go, only that it was the only book I have showing the colors as Mr. Dolbey is suggesting and yes, I did suspect that the cover on this book was colorized. Since you saw fit to be so hostile, I will say; who are you and why would I trust you! If you are some well known expert in the World War One Aviation field, this means very little to me as could care less!

[EricGoedkoop]

Lets not go off the deep end, wot?



daboosailing -

The British adopted rudder stripes early in the war after some of their aircraft were fired upon by French ground troops, who apparently had been trained to identify a friendly aircraft as one carrying (French) colors on the rudder. To avoid further confusion, the British painted their rudders in the exact same pattern as the French - that is to say blue, white and red starting at the front. As far as I know, this was consistent throughout the war. American aircraft carried the reverse (red, white, blue) starting in January 1918.


Let's have Mike (who does happen to be something of an expert, actually) buy you a beer and everyone can relax.

[papermache]

Mr. Dolbey has obviously confused British and American markings. Either that or he's just TERRIBLY colorblind.

papermache

[EricGoedkoop]

Sorry - forgot to add that the Brits did indeed reverse the color order in, if I remember correctly, 1930. Whoever colorized the Camel photo was probably using modern British markings as reference. The mistake is a natural one to make if you don't do your homework.

[PeterL]

Originally Posted by daboosailing

Did the Brits change the sequence at some point?

Yes, as explained by Eric above. In the mid-thirties the RAF ceased to apply rudder stripes as it was determined that the paint upset the balance of the control surface; The same determination led to the relocation or resizing of wing cockades during WWI so as not to overlap the airlerons. Rudder stripes were briefly reintroduced during The Battle of France when they were carried by Air Component BEF, again for the benefit of our French allies. The fin flash was adopted shortly afterwards and remains in use today.

Your post is interesting to those of us with qualms about devining colours from black and white photographs alone. The originator of this theory ignored plentiful evidence confirming absolutely the falseness of his premise, relying entirely on his own interpretation of the photographs. That it can be proven beyond any doubt that he is wrong casts further doubt on the whole concept.

I would find it hard to believe in the 1950s and 60s when many WW1 aviators would still be alive, that they would allow a mistake to continue! At this point, with the information given here, I would paint any British model's rudder from front to back as blue, followed by white and then red. However, Mr. Dolbey's opinion seems to carry some weight as some manufacturers have reversed this order! Where did this missinformation come from? I don't know if Mr. Dolbey is the originator, or not. Somebody "in the know" should certainly rebutt his letter in Model Aviation.

[PeterL]

Originally Posted by daboosailing

I don't know if Mr. Dolbey is the originator, or not. Somebody "in the know" should certainly rebutt his letter in Model Aviation.

Rest assured, someone will.