Against human folly.....

stephen · 2 January 2002, 12:33 PM

No Leo, the numbers are right.

The average time for a child to get what the state claims to be an education is 12 years, at an average of $8,000 per year, to equal $96,000 (CATO Institute survey of schools).

The average time that a criminal will spend behind bars, according to the Dept of Justice's 1998 figures, is 37 months, at just over $1,600 per month for a total of $61,000.

So yes, it is significantly cheaper to put people in jail than it is to give them a state education. I'll be glad to consider your point, but please don't use that comparison. It simply doesn't work. The faulty numbers propogated by some are created by comparing one year of schooling (insufficient to educate a child) to one year of jail time (less than half the total time most prisoners will spend behind bars). It is an unequal comparison designed to deceive and does not do your argument justice.

Re: the quality of public education: if state-forced education funded by threat-based extortion were truly a fine way of educating children, private schools would go out of business overnight.

They have not.

stephen · 2 January 2002, 12:37 PM

BTW, the numbers stated above are based on a high school education alone... if you want to throw in college as well, the average education becomes ridiculously more expensive than the average cost of imprisonment.

Sorry to chase the numbers so much, but I can't let the inaccurate analogy from that magazine go unchallenged. Please continue with your point.

leo · 4 January 2002, 02:19 AM

I see your point, Stephen. And based upon your assumptions I must concede that point. My assumption was based upon four years of prison time as opposed to four years of university education. I did not make my view clearly enough.

Money alone will not make a big difference in education. But, the opportunity should be there for youngsters to take advantage of. Some extra dollars would help. The three districts I mentioned earlier do not have the resources to provide that opportunity, They have set their tax rate on individual homes at the highest level permitted by state law and have lost their industrial base.
They need some help from somewhere and are not getting it.

leo · 4 January 2002, 02:21 AM

Hey Mike!

Whats wrong with human folly? I've had a heck of a good tome indulging myself these past 68+ years. Try it! You'll like it.

mike_baram · 4 January 2002, 03:46 AM

In that case, I defer to an expert on the subject.

BobE · 4 January 2002, 08:03 AM

Hey guys, lets face it, "folly" is what humans do best. Leo, count me in. Right now I am painting little plastic knights for a game called "Camelot" so I can play it with my Grandsons.

By the way, I would bet all of you guys that are chewing up the public school system are products of it. Certainly seems to have taught you arithmetic. Of course I am being facetious. Times have changed without a doubt.

I think Mike originally started this thread to see if he could start up the religious wars again. I could have made some clever comments about the "Harry Potter" thing but it's the season of "Peace on Earth" so I choose to pass for now.

Happy Bob

mike_baram · 4 January 2002, 10:33 AM

The public education system of the fifties was a damn good one. Anyone with a high school diploma from 35-40 years ago can hold his own with today's college grads.
The education has been continually dumbed down over the last couple of decades so "no child would be left behind", competition is discouraged, and teachers have no accountability for the dismal performance of their students.
(Sorry, Leo, it's not personal. It's a fact. And my father taught high school science for 30+ years.)
BTW, I wasn't trying to start a religious war. The same type of idiot that can be the almighty's chosen representative could just as well have become a politician and voted to ban guns/drugs/abortion/booze/"Catcher in The Rye" with the full knowledge that such laws are a)futile and b)make criminals out of ordinarily law abiding citizens, but make HIM look good in the eyes of some constituents.

stephen · 4 January 2002, 11:32 AM

Nope. I am not a product of the state educational system.

My parents pulled me out for the same reason I never put my kids in... the state has proven themselves incapable of educating my kids to the level that I expect of them.

I only have one set of kids, and they will not be used as guinea pigs in The Great Failed Experiment.

4 January 2002, 11:35 AM

Mike.Didn`t California experiment with teaching Immigrant children in their "native tongue" as opposed to American english?How did it pan out?Was it a success or a dismal failure?I only ask this because a school in an inner London Borough has, or is going to,start teaching lessons in the immigrant childs racial or ethnic tongue.I do not intend starting a discussion on the rights and wrongs of immigration but do wonder why effort on behalf of both parent,school and child is not given towards learning the racial tongue of THIS land[English english or should that be British english?]?After all do they not intend living here? ???