Top German WW1 aces without Pour le Mérite

[Baracca1]

My information on the Pour Le Merite came from William E. Burrows' "Richthofen: A True History of The Red Baron" (Harcourt, Brace, and Jovanovich; 1969), and I stand by that source, as it is a very well-researched and documented one. I also stand by my claim that "The Blue Max" is one of the most historically-accurate films ever made, and the greatest film ever made--barring none--about the creation of a propaganda hero in wartime. The Wikipedia article also claims that a total of 5430 officers were given the Pour Le Merite, including foreign officers, such as the Bulgarian Lt. General of Infantry Todorov, although I know that not all of these most courageous soldiers received this award during The Great War. My information on William George Barker was substantially accurate, although I admit that I was wrong about some of the dates regarding the aftermath of this most valorous ace's last aerial combat. My source was the chapter devoted to Barker in Arch Whitehouse's "Heroes of the Sunlit Sky" (Curtis Books, 1967.)

[Baracca1]

I appreciate the correction of my errors in my posts on The Pour Le Merite and William George Barker. However, I would still like to know how the award for valor came to be nicknamed "The Blue Max", and, if, indeed, the number of aerial victories needed by a pilot to claim the medal did indeed rise from 16 to 20--or even beyond--by late 1917 or 1918, the latter year being that in which most of the classic 1966 film, "The Blue Max" was set. Surely, even though Degelow received the prized decoration on 11/8/18 after shooting down 30 Allied airplanes while Buchner was awarded it on 10/25/18 after scoring 40 aerial victories, the necessary number of Allied planes downed to claim the award did not rise so greatly to either of these figures?

[MASTIFF]

Originally Posted by Baracca1

My source was the chapter devoted to Barker in Arch Whitehouse's "Heroes of the Sunlit Sky" (Curtis Books, 1967.)

Save yourself future headaches. Take ALL of Whitehouse's books and write FICTION across the cover in large red letters.

[Knusel]

Originally Posted by Baracca1

... if, indeed, the number of aerial victories needed by a pilot to claim the medal did indeed rise from 16 to 20--or even beyond--by late 1917 or 1918, the latter year being that in which most of the classic 1966 film, "The Blue Max" was set. Surely, even though Degelow received the prized decoration on 11/8/18 after shooting down 30 Allied airplanes while Buchner was awarded it on 10/25/18 after scoring 40 aerial victories, the necessary number of Allied planes downed to claim the award did not rise so greatly to either of these figures?

Dear Baracca1,

I've devoted a thread to the number of kills that the PLM winners had achieved at the time of award:
http://theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68825

Enjoy,

Michael

[Graeme]

As Tony has said, Barker's rank is a story in itself:

The London Gazette of 29 April 1919 gives: Capt. (actg. Maj.) W. G. Barker, V.C., D.S.O., M.C., resigns his [RAF] commn. and is permitted to retain the rank of Maj. 29th Apr. 1919.

The London Gazette of 30 May 1919 gives: Manitoba Regt - Temp. Lt.-Col. W. G. Barker, V.C., D.S.O., M.C., is secd, for duty with the C.A.F. 16 May 1919.

In the April 1919 issue of the Air Force List he is shown as a Captain, acting Major effective 11 July 1918

Section XI of the May 1919 issue of The Air Force List is headed “OFFICERS WHO HAVE HELD COMMISSIONS IN THE ROYAL AIR FORCE AND WHO HAVE BEEN PERMITTED TO RETAIN THEIR RANK.”

Column 4551a contains entries under the heading “Majors” and lists 25 names, including:

Barker, W. G., V.C., D.S.O., M.C. 29Apr.19

Cutting to the chase, he was promoted to temporary Major in the RAF on 11 July 1918, resigned his RAF commission, as a Major, on 29 April 1919 and was then promoted Lieutenant-Colonel in the Manitoba Regiment (and the Canadian Air Force) on 16 May 1919.

Given this timeline, he could not possibly have known of his promotion while in hospital in early November 1918.

Graeme

[MASTIFF]

In actual fact, Barker had to apply to enter the Canadian Air Force and did so in 1922. He was appointed Wing Commander (equivalent to Lt Col) with seniority in that rank from 3 June 1922.

Tony

[sator]

Originally Posted by MASTIFF

Save yourself future headaches. Take ALL of Whitehouse's books and write FICTION across the cover in large red letters.

I,ll have to agree he did often stretch the truth for a more interesting story.

[Gregvan]

Hello Baracca1,

As for why and how the Pour le Mérite came to gain the nickname "The Blue Max,", there has been a lot of speculation but I doubt that anyone really knows. What is certain is the fact that the term was in use among German airmen in WWI (in other words, it wasn't something Jack Hunter just made up - he did his research well). As the late Neal O'Connor pointed out, the term "the Blue Max" appears in the wartime writings of both Hans-Joachim Buddecke and Adolf Ritter von Tutschek.

Also, it appears in Hanns Möller's well-researched 1939 history of JG II, "Kampf und Sieg eines Jagdgeschwaders". Incidentally, the passage contains reference to the slow process that sometimes happened late in the war, as regards the award:

“September 18, 1918 was once again a special day for Ltn. Büchner who succeeded for the second time in downing three enemies in one day, thereby gaining his 30th, 31st and 32nd victories. And still the ‘Blue Max’ did not come! High time the whimsical god of war was gracious to him!”

Furthermore, the "Blue Max" term is heard in Karl Ritter's 1938 German film Pour le Mérite (what one might call the first 'Blue Max' film). The script of this film was based on the memoirs of actual WWI pilots and the production was aided by the participation of a number of old airmen like Willy Gabriel and Alfred Niemz. In my opinion, the first part of this film makes up one of the most accurate WWI aviation movies ever made, in terms of atmosphere and authentic dialogue, etc.

The origin of the "Blue" part of the nickname is obvious, due to the medal's striking appearance. Many have suggested that the "Max" part was inspired by Max Immelmann, but as far as I know that is only speculation. Others have significantly theorized that the "Max" was short for "maximal" (maximum), and that the word "Max" was often added on to a term to suggest the biggest or best example of something. I'm not an expert, but I think that some very large artillery pieces were given the "max" sobriquet. I think you can do a forum archives search and find out more.

Incidentally, Bodo Freiherr von Lyncker of Jasta 25 coined the term "The Blue Bird" for the Order, and others sometimes used the term "Blue Star". But neither of those nicknames ever caught on.

[Gregvan]

Hi Again,
As far as speculation about the number of qualifying victories for the "Blue Max" having been raised to 30 by late in the war, it's best to turn to the REAL experts: the late Neal O'Connor and Lance Bronnenkant.

Neal O’Connor wrote: “The idea that it took at least 30 victories for a fighter pilot to gain the Pour le Mérite late in the war is not supported by at least two facts. First, there were 12 of them who received the order in the last half of 1918 with scores below 30 at the time of the award. One approved as late as November 1, 1918 went to a man with ‘only’ 27 victories. Second, at least 16 fighter pilots had been nominated for the award and were waiting for it to be approved when the war ended. All but three had official scores below 30 when the Armistice and the Kaiser’s abdication ended the matter.”

Lance Bronnenkant also adds: “The high totals that many pilots had amassed by the time of their award appears to have been more a function of the approval process delays experienced during the war’s closing months and the rapidity of scoring that occurred in the meantime." (my emphasis)

One certainly has to wonder what was going through the minds of Franz Büchner and Paul Bäumer as their scores climbed well beyond 30 and still no Order. Poor Bäumer had to wait until 2 November 1918, with his score standing at 43 - more than Boelcke. There is a well-known series of photos taken of the group of outstanding aces who gathered in Berlin for the final fighter competition in October 1918. Baracca1, you can even see one in Whitehouse's Heroes of the Sunlit Sky. It shows (L to R) Walter Blume, Josef Veltjens, Josef Jacobs, Oskar Freiherr von Boenigk, Eduard von Schleich, Ernst Udet, Bruno Loerzer, Bäumer, Goering, and the recovering Heinrich Bongartz. All of them have their coat collars open to show off their Pour le Mérites except the unfortunate Bäumer. But he would get his soon afterwards....

[Knusel]

Originally Posted by MASTIFF

I realize that citing this source is a bit sketchy, but according to Wikipedia:
"Dorr was the most successful ace to fly the Fokker D.VII, accumulating 30 victories with it. ...

Tony

Good morning,

Is it known if Gustav Dörr or Jasta 45 ever had BMW-powered Fokker D.VIIF's ?

Kind regards,

Michael