French N17 tail markings info

Here's the current status of the wbhaviland images.

I just finished high resolution (1200 dpi) scans of all the N.124 Lafayette section images. Having done so I was able to overlay the "softer" original scrapbook images with higher quality copies. The higher res views provide a great more detail, including a lot of SFA numbers, details pertaining to personal emblems, etc.

From the original high res scans we've been able to identify a lot of stuff. I'm updating the captions in the web site as these details are verified. Almost all the aircraft identifications are complete at this time. Next will be the locations, when it can be determined, where photos were taken. (I have to acknowledge Alan Toelle and Diego Fernetti and their associates for huge contributions in this identification process.)

The next effort will be to re-scan the Porto Corsini images in high res. Also I am working on a site index (by aircraft type, SFA number, markings, assigned pilots, etc.) Since there are 229 separate images in just the Lafayette section alone, it gets a bit overwhelming to find stuff easily.

Anyway, these are my immediate goals for this project... as I can make time to proceed.

Regarding captions, I'm not beyond making typos and there could be some disagreement about specific notations. If such is the case, let me know and we'll share the "source" information and see if we can come to agreement. Similarly, if anyone needs to look at a source image (they are upwards to 12MB in size) I can email an image or a cropped portion of a high res image on request. Simply ping me. Please indicate the web page URL and the image's position on the page.

I hope these materials will resolve more debates than they create!

Best regards,

":O) Willis

[rabu]

Wills:
The Haviland site is really fantastic, thanks so much for all the work you've done on it. It looks like Tom contacted you about the white band I noticed on Willis Haviland's N17 and you've noted that and also added a lot more info on each of the other pictures. Great work, look forward to more!

[rabu]

I had some questions thrown at me over on the SOH forum about the dash in the N17's... did it have a wood dash with the instruments or were they attached to the cross bar in the cockpit.. I can't find any good photos of this. Maybe Mark (Miller) can tell from the plans he used, the ones I have from online I can't zoom in enough to read any of the notations.

[rabu]

Originally Posted by Willis Lamm

Here's the current status of the wbhaviland images.
........snip..........

I hope these materials will resolve more debates than they create!

Best regards,

":O) Willis

Willis: Here's your Grandfather, Willis Haviland, out on patrol, 1916..

[TomVrille]

Hi rabu

As nearly as I can tell, the "stripe" markings are personal markings, and have no other significance. As you probably know, most of the Lafayette Escadrille flyers carried personal markings on their Nieuport 11s, in the absence of any squadron logo. I believe many carried on with the tradition after the new Nieuport 17s became available. Lufbery's and Haviland's markings you already know. Robert Soubiran used a single vertical stripe (probably red), followed by a stylized script letter "S" in black. Harold Willis used a diagonal green stripe, with a green block letter "W" on the top wing, and so on.

I like your Haviland on patrol shot!

[rabu]

Thanks, Tom:

I think that things were very informal with that situation... I read that they even were allowed to design thier own uniforms and they had special quarters set up where they could entertain the local village "girls"... along with keeping lions as mascots that Willis shows photos of on his site! That must have really been somthing, living back then.

I really appreciate all your help, and others, who have offered suggestions. I just ordered some of the Norman Franks books and can't wait to get them.

[Bookmaker]

Rabu, nice work. This may have been answered already, but the N17 did not have an instrument panel, only a couple of instruments mounted to the frame tubing.

The photo Tom posted with the 3 horizontal bars is #1844 of Lufbury. This is the one I modeled. I have a book that the photo goes back to mid rudder and you can see the 44 of the serial number.

Dale

[rabu]

Originally Posted by Bookmaker

Rabu, nice work. This may have been answered already, but the N17 did not have an instrument panel, only a couple of instruments mounted to the frame tubing.

The photo Tom posted with the 3 horizontal bars is #1844 of Lufbury. This is the one I modeled. I have a book that the photo goes back to mid rudder and you can see the 44 of the serial number.

Dale

Thanks, Dale.. I may have to learn how to use the MS Max 3d program so I can make some corrections to some of the models. As it is now, I'm stuck with the instrument panel in the OFF N17, and I also don't have the Lewis gun which a lot of the N17's seemed to have out of preference. I think prart of the problem at first was that the scnchronizing gear took a pretty good hit on HP and reliability in the initial N17's.
I ordered several of the Osprey books on the Nieuports and some others and am looking forward to receiving them. The nomenclature for the numbers, squads, etc. has got me a bit confused, so am hoping the books can straighten it out.

[rabu]

Another one just finished:
Belgium Ace - Edmund Thieffry
The Comit emblem for the unit 5 Escadrille was well known.