Top German WW1 aces without Pour le Mérite

[SteveH]

Was the PLM awarded at the discretion of the Kaiser? I thought that the abdication, Nov 9 ??, curtailed any further awards.

Regards, Steve

[Gregvan]

Hi Friends,

At the back section of Walter Zuerl's important book "Pour le Mérite Flieger," Zuerl had a section devoted to men who were proposed for the award, but for various reasons never received it. Here's what he said:

"Wenn wir auf den vorangegangenen Seiten der mit den Pour le Merite ausgezeichneten Flieger gedacht haben, so wäre es eine grosse Ungerechtigkeit nicht auch die zu erwähnen, die auf Grund ihrer hervorragenden Leistungen zun Pour le Mérite vor geschlagen waren und diesen Orden aus irgend einem Grunde, sei es durch führeren Heldentod (Bethge, Friedrichs, Reinhard, Weiss), infolge Gefangenschaft (Billik), oder Revolution nicht mehr erhalten konnten."

In other words, the three main reasons that these men failed to receive the award were - death (Bethge, Friedrichs, Reinhard, Weiss) - captivity (Billik) - or the Revolution and the Kaiser's abdication.

What followed were brief biographies of these men:

Harald Auffahrt
Hermann Becker
Paul Billik
Gustav Dörr
Hans von Freden
Fritz Friedrichs
Otto Fruhner
Georg von Hantelmann
Josef Mai
Georg Meyer
Max Naether
Friedrich Noltenius
Karl Odebrett
Werner Preuss
Wilhelm Reinhard
Franz Schleiff
Otto Schmidt
Hans Weiss

As Neal O'Connor commented in his Volume 2, the case of Paul Billik seems particularly unfair. Billik was shot down and taken prisoner on 10 August 1918. "Billik's award did not come because before it could be approved, he had been taken prisoner. That seems strange when compared with the award of the Pour le Mérite to Rudolf Windisch who was given it after he, too, had come down behind enemy lines and at he time, like Billik, was thought to have survived."

The ironic thing is, of course, that Windisch disappeared soon after he was brought down behind French lines and was (presumably) dead when his award was made. Yet Billik was very much alive in captivity but did not get the PLM.

Greg

[Knusel]

Dear Greg VanWyngarden,

thanks for your post.
The strange date for Dörr's PLM award (17Jan1919) indicated by Nowarra in his list of those who didn't receive the PLM is from that book:
https://www.amazon.com/Air-Aces-1914.../dp/0816863504

Can we hope for a new book of yourself in the near future ?

Michael

[Volker_Nemsch]

.
"The strange date for Dörr's PLM award (17Jan1919) indicated by Nowarra in his list of those who didn't receive the PLM..."

... in Germany in 1919. Wilhelm II. abdicated on 09.11.1918 (or was forced to do so) and his son, crown-prince Wilhelm signed his abdication on 01.12.1918.

Since this highest German/Prussian order was granted by imperial decree, there would have been no chance for any officer to receive this order after the above mentioned dates.

The new German republic ("Weimarer Republik" (Weimar Republic)) certainly had more severe problems than working through the old lists of the gone monarchy and with the abdication the Hohenzollern family no longer had the right to award German or Prussian orders.

So I have no idea on what (legal) basis Gustav Dörr could have received "his" Pour le Mérite in 1919...
----
.

[MASTIFF]

I realize that citing this source is a bit sketchy, but according to Wikipedia:

"Dorr was the most successful ace to fly the Fokker D.VII, accumulating 30 victories with it. ... he did not receive his nation's greatest honor; the Kaiser abdicated without awarding Dorr's Blue Max. It was an embittering experience that may have been the root for false reports that he was given the Pour le Merite in January 1919."

Tony

[Baracca1]

Dear fellows,
I find this post most interesting, indeed! However, I would like to know if the number of victories actually needed to obtain the Blue Max, that had risen from 8 (the number of victories by which Immelman and Boelcke claimed the medal) to 16 (the number by which Der Rote Kampfflieger himself claimed the prized honor on January 16, 1917) had, in fact, risen to 20 by late 1917 or early 1918. It is also worth noting that, while the medal is seen by many--even by the lesser-informed WWI aviation buffs--as strictly an award for airmen, the simple fact is that this award for valor of the highest variety was, in fact, bestowed upon slightly more than 1000 military and naval officers--including no less a military genius and giant than Erwin Rommel, the future Desert Fox himself, who won his Pour Le Merite for his gallantry at Longarone, one of the adjunct actions comprising the battle of Caporetto, the worst defeat suffered by Italian forces in the First World War--and, indeed, throughout the whole of Italian military history--but by only 83 aviators (Source: William E. Burrows,"Richthofen: A True History of The Red Baron), and that, furthermore, the Pour Le Merite, unlike its counterparts such as France's Croix de Guerre, the British Empire's Victoria Cross, America's Medal of Honor, and all others, the Pour Le Merite (nicknamed the Blue Max--Does anyone know the origin of this nickname) was awarded not for single acts of bravery, but, rather, for continued acts of heroism.

[Baracca1]

Dear Fellow Members,
Also, to continue my tribute to William George Barker, I would like to mention that, over two weeks after his confrontation with a German aerial formation of 60 Fokker Triplanes and Fokker D-VII's, during which Barker increased his score to 53 by shooting down four planes and damaging two others, the incredibly courageous Canadian ace woke up in a hospital bed after crash-landing to discover that he had been awarded the Victoria Cross, promoted to lieutenant colonel, and--perhaps the most welcome news any veteran of The Great War could receive, especially after a final wartime confrontation such as that experienced by the most valorous William Barker--that the war was over!

[Volker_Nemsch]

.
"… bestowed upon slightly more than 1000 military and naval officers…"

We all agree that Wikipeda is not the absolutely perfect source but in this case the list they offer is so detailed, that it would be easy to find at least some of the officers (listed between No. 687 and 1,000+). An English and German version of the list of Pour le Mérite recipients is available here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ss)_recipients
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_...it%C3%A4rorden)

The German text mentiones:
"Im Ersten Weltkrieg (1914/18) wurde der Orden 687 Mal und das Eichenlaub zum Pour le Mérite 122 Mal verliehen."

(my translation):
"During the First World War (1914/18) the order was awarded 687 times and the oakleaves for the Pour le Mérite 122 times."

Furthermore the English article mentiones as follows:
"The military class of the Pour le Mérite became extinct as a result of Kaiser William II's abdication as king of Prussia and emperor of Germany on 9 November 1918. This marked the end of the Prussian monarchy and it was never awarded thereafter; however the honour continued to be recognized for, and worn by, previous recipients."

.

[Knusel]

Originally Posted by MASTIFF

I realize that citing this source is a bit sketchy, but according to Wikipedia:

"Dorr was the most successful ace to fly the Fokker D.VII, accumulating 30 victories with it. ... he did not receive his nation's greatest honor; the Kaiser abdicated without awarding Dorr's Blue Max. It was an embittering experience that may have been the root for false reports that he was given the Pour le Merite in January 1919."

Tony

Good afternoon,

I don't think that Dörr had the most Fokker D.VII kills. In my opinion the top five looks like this:
1. Franz Büchner 38(40)
2. Erich Loewenhardt 36(54)
3. Ernst Udet 34(62)
4. Gustav Dörr 31(35)
5. Hermann Frommherz 29(32)
Or does Wikipedia mean Mercedes-powered D.VII kills only ?

Michael

[MASTIFF]

Originally Posted by Baracca1

... over two weeks after his confrontation with a German aerial formation of 60 Fokker Triplanes and Fokker D-VII's ... Canadian ace woke up in a hospital bed ... to discover that he had been awarded the Victoria Cross, promoted to lieutenant colonel, and ... that the war was over!

It would seem that you have been given some incorrect information regarding Will Barker.

Barker was reportedly in and out of consciousness for "several days". But on 7 November he was well enough to write a letter to his friend Major Leman of 201 Sqn. He did not "wake up" after two weeks to find the war over.

By that time, it was generally known that he had been recommended for the VC but it had not yet been confirmed. In fact, he received it from the King in February 1919. At that time his rank was Major, RAF.

Barker's rank is a story all by itself. He was discharged from the Manitoba Regiment as Trooper Barker. He had never held commissioned rank in the Canadian forces and was an officer of the Royal Air Force, not simply attached to it from his former regiment, as was Bishop.

Lt General Sir Richard Turner, head of the Overseas Military Forces of Canada, suggested to Col GS Harrington, Deputy Minister of the OMFC, that Barker be promoted after his transfer to the Canadian Forces and that he be granted the rank of substantive Lt Col in the OMFC. He then became an Army officer belonging to a dormant regiment. He was placed on the Army retired list in September 1919 with that rank.

With thanks to Wayne Ralph, author of "Barker VC".

Tony