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30 January 2010, 08:01 PM
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#1 |
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAAAY North Minnesota, eh?
Posts: 411
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Unusual Spray Painted Camouflage on Imperial Machine
Gents-
Have you seen this image before? Can you ID the machine type? I also wanted to point out the unusual paint scheme. Last question...what is the significance, if any, of the notation on front? It appears to say "Walfisch-Typ." I was going to guess Hannover CL.IIIa but I think I'm wrong. Notice the unusual interplane struts & the lack of any fly or landing wires. Sorry I don't have a better scan of this right now. The original is en route... -Chuck
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To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man -Cecil Lewis Last edited by CThomas; 30 January 2010 at 08:15 PM. |
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30 January 2010, 08:22 PM
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#2 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Charles, Iowa
Posts: 6,724
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Hi CThomas,
Yes, I've seen this photo before, but don't have a copy. Congrats! This is a Roland C.II, the so-called "Walfisch" (Whale). It was nicknamed the Whale because of its streamlined shape. It's one of the more popular, yet unusual, types of German two-seaters amongst us enthusiasts. You have some very nice photos of a couple of Roland D.VI types in your collection, photographed after the war in Coblenz. The C.II might be considered their 'ancestor". Roland was the manufacturer's trademark of the LFG Firm (Luftfahrzeug-Gesellschaft mbH), used in order to avoid confusion with the LVG company. Early examples of the type appeared in an overall light-colored scheme (thought to be pale blue-gray), but later examples were camouflaged, generally in tones of green and brown. Your photo shows a Roland C.IIa (Li), or an example manufactured under license by the Linke-Hoffmann Werke AG of Breslau. The sprayed camouflage scheme is typical for aircraft manufactured by Linke-Hoffmann.
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Greg VanWyngarden An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field. Niels Bohr |
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30 January 2010, 08:24 PM
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#3 |
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canberra, A.C.T., Australia
Posts: 2,292
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Roland Walfisch
Hi Chuck,
It looks like a Roland Walfisch (Whale). I haven't seen that particular photograph before but there are thousands, if not millions of privately taken photographs such as this out there in private collections. I certainly try to collect as many such photographs as I can while they are still available. Regards, David. |
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30 January 2010, 08:57 PM
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#4 |
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Charles, Iowa
Posts: 6,724
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Hi Chuck,
Here's another couple of pictures to show you what the Walfisch looked like. German crews sometimes expanded on the "Whale" theme by painting various forms of what we would call "sharkmouth" markings on their Rolands. Later, Roland developed a line of single-seater fighters from the C.II (the D.I, D.II and D.III, with the D.II being most common) that was nicknamed "Haifisch" or shark - but they didn't live up to their racy appearance or name. Anyway - Roland C.II's:  
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Greg VanWyngarden An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field. Niels Bohr |
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30 January 2010, 09:56 PM
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#5 |
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAAAY North Minnesota, eh?
Posts: 411
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Greg-
After I read your reply, I started searching around the internet for an image of this unusual machine. Little did I know you already had some scans to share with me. Thank you! I also appreciate all of the background data you posted to this thread. I learned something new tonight. I'll continue my search for this particular image being documented somewhere, in some obscure source. If you, or anyone else, comes across it again, please let me know. While I have your attention, do you know which Jasta would have flown the Walfisch? Thanks again! -Chuck David- Before I forget, you have quite the image collection yourself. I look forward to your postings as they show up on this forum. Thank you for your input!
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To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man -Cecil Lewis |
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30 January 2010, 10:07 PM
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#6 |
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canberra, A.C.T., Australia
Posts: 2,292
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Hi Chuck,
Greg must have been typing his reply to you as I was typing mine. His is more thorough, but when I see someone asking a question I try to give them an answer if I know anything about the subject they are enquiring about. A short answer is better than nothing! Greg must have quite a few photos too! It's great that you look forward to my postings!  I wish I was a prolific author - the photograph collection I purchased from Gerald Muir really is worthy of publication, and I often buy more photos from eBay of course, so I would say that I am up to about 6,000 photos at the moment. I try to encourage authors to use my photographs, and some of them do. I find that I do some collecting, some cataloguing, some building - although I am going to attempt to do a lot more, and day to day life takes all the rest of my time so I really need to work out how to make more time so that I can write and publish too.Regards, David. |
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31 January 2010, 01:53 AM
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#7 | |
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAAAY North Minnesota, eh?
Posts: 411
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Quote:
Are you talking about the Jasta 23b machines? Those were pretty clear shots. Thanks for your input on those as well (and for the scans too). Dave- 6000? Then I hope we'll be hearing from you more often. I have about a fraction of that amount in aviation related photos (pilots, planes etc..). The rest of my image collection is centered around studio portraits of various AEF soldiers (men & women). -Chuck
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To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man -Cecil Lewis |
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31 January 2010, 02:29 AM
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#8 |
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAAAY North Minnesota, eh?
Posts: 411
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Good news! I found this very same image depicted on pg 34 (image #96) of Windsock Datafile 49 LFG Roland C.II by P M Grosz. The description states "Taxying out for take-off, this Roland C.IIa(Li) carries the characteristic Linke-Hofmann camouflage scheme. The lower left wing appears to have been repaired."
You were spot on, Greg. -Chuck
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To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man -Cecil Lewis |
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31 January 2010, 04:07 AM
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#9 |
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canberra, A.C.T., Australia
Posts: 2,292
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Hi Chuck,
Yes I would estimate 6,000. I will have to count them one day but it's a huge job as you can imagine! I just saw a private message from you asking about camera gun photographs. I have seen some in my collection recently, so when I remember to, I will take a photo of it now that I have worked out how to download digital photos onto my relatively new computer. To anyone who has sent me a PM or an e-mail, if I don't reply I have not forgotten you intentionally  I often find old requests and reply to them when I can but please don't ever be shy about sending me a reminder. Regards, David. |
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31 January 2010, 10:54 AM
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#10 |
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAAAY North Minnesota, eh?
Posts: 411
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Dave-
I'll be looking forward to seeing those gun camera photos. Please send them at your convenience. Besides aviation related photos, I also collect/document variations of WWI Air Service collar insignia. I started an album here: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/me...-insignia.html -Chuck
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To be alone, to have your life in your own hands, to use your own skill, single-handed, against the enemy. It was like the lists of the Middle Ages, the only sphere in modern warfare where a man saw his adversary and faced him in mortal combat, the only sphere where there was still chivalry and honour. If you won, it was your own bravery and skill; if you lost, it was because you had met a better man -Cecil Lewis |
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