Marine Siemens-Schuckerts

[Barrett]

Recently I ran across a reference to Siemens-Schuckert D.IVs in one or more of the marine jastas in 1918. Does anyone have a take on whether any naval units were fully equipped with them, or whether a few were available for the use of a few experten? Once the engine problems were ironed out, the SS birds seem to have been popular, and there's mention in Taylor's book on WW I German aircraft that JG I was interested in re-equipping with them.

[Reinout]

Hmmmm. I have a book that details over 500 planes as designed for the Germans. I recall the SS DIV being called the best fighter of the war in that very same book They also accurately state which units were equipped with it. Don't have the book with me though...

You'll hear from me later this week.

Kind regards,

Reinout

[Reinout]

Dear Barrett,

As promised I looked up the info requested. In "German Aircraft of the First World War" by P.Gray and O.Thetford. There is a detailed treatise on the SS DIII and DIV which differ only slightly. The DIII was well-liked by Rudolf Berthold, despite the engines not being trustworthy. It was not the plane that was bad though. Goering tried to discredit SS but pilots at Kest's and Berthold were quite in favour of SS. The DIV had better speed, better climbrates (at higher altitudes, at lower altitudes the DIII climbed faster) and some redesigned features compared to the DIII. Still, they seemed similar in looks and handling characteristics. The climbrate was exceptional and it had a 2 hours duration; quite good for a German fighter.
In August 1918 the first deliveries were made. The lucky ones were Jasta 14 and the Marine Jagdgeschwader of Theo Osterkamp. Kest 2 and Jasta 22 received some DIV's; their full complement was probably never reached due to the ever shrinking engine availability. Some 280 machines were ordered, but not all were delivered. In spite of its initial antipathy the Richthofen Geschwader was supposed to have been equipped with it. Gray and Thetford merely state that their request for the type had not been fulfilled. No numbers on any units were given, but the text suggest that Jasta 14 and the Marine Jagdgeschwader were completely equipped. The text ends with the statement that it was without a doubt the best German fighter to reach operational status and that manufacture was not halted until the summer of 1919! One survivor has been known to exist in Germany until 1926. Its fate? Guesses, mere guesses....

Hope this has helped a bit.

Kind regards,

Reinout

[Vigilant]

Was the SS really better than the D.VII? Everything I've seen says the Fokker was 'the best fighter of the war'.

Secondly, did D.VII production also carry on up to Versailles (summer 1919)? It sounds like the post-war Luftstreitkrafte was planning to equip with the SS -- until that is the Allies banned Gerrmany from having any air force at all!

I think the SSW was more maneuverable, and had a faster rate of climb, than the D-VII (the rate of climb explains why so many of the few SSWs built ended up in point-defense units). The D-VII was probably more rugged, and its engine was definitely more reliable, given the poor state of engine lubricants in the reich at the end of the war.

I don't often fantasize about German equipment, but I'd love to have had a chance to fly a genuine SSW D-IV.

[Reinout]

It may well have been the idea to rearm the air force of Germany with SS types after the war. The book I used clearly stated that production was not ceased until the summer of 1919. The Versailles Treaty would have been THE reason to stop manufacture. The date is close by.

The SS DIV was perhaps a better plane than the Fokker DVII. However it was not produced in large enough quantities and it certainly didn't equip enough units for it to have made an impact on the front. The DVII itself was not deemed powerful enough at first, but the better engines ensured its place in history. There were always reasons for airplanes not to reach their full potential. In the SS case, perhaps pilots needed conversion, there was a shortage of fuel (for training and combat) and maybe there were some small faults with the aircraft that needed to be ironed out before maximum efficiency could be reached. It came out relatively late in the war. Too late to be known by the public. If people know about the performance of this aircraft, it will be us. For we have reached beyond the surface of history. This plane's only claim to glory is that WE know how good it really was. But we're getting too poetic now.
Remember that JG1 wanted to have the DIV, Goering had come to favour it over the DVII which they had been flying for months now. Goering was also very antipathic towards SS at first. You need a damn good plane to change such scepticism!

Kind regards,

Reinout

Apparently Kogenluft continued to operate with typical German efficiency right up to the end of the war. From what I recall reading about the July 6 and 14 fighter trials, von Hoppner's subordinates clearly understood that the best plane was not necessarily the plane to be mass produced. They were well aware that problems related to the lubrication of Siemens-Halske rotary used in the SSW DIV would prevent the mass production of this plane. However, due to the favorable reports on the plane from many skilled pilots led by Berthold, its development was considered essential.

The summer 1918 fighter trials were based on engine allocation, with the most important engines being the 185 hp BMW, the 160 hp Mercedes, the Oberusal rotary and the Siemens rotary. Several Benz engines were also in the trials but were not considered to be as good as the above four. As I recall, only the SSW D4 and the Pfalz D8 were considered for the Siemens rotary. The consensus opinion at the July fighter trials was that the Fokker E5 and the SSW D4 were the best planes, with the SSW being considered the best. The fact that the Fokker was much easier to produce resulted in its choice as the next generation fighter.