Air Aces of the 1914-1918 War

[Doug Larsen]

I have just started reading Gwilym Lewis' "Wings Over the Somme 1916-1918", and I am curious if anyone on this forum might know a reason why Lewis does not show up in the listing of British Aces in the Harleyford Publications Ltd (Aero Publishers), "Air Aces of the 1914-1918 War"? The work on that book seems quite good, and I am surprised to see Lewis' name missing. He had 12 "kills" and the DFC, after all!

Are there other aces missing from the listings in the Harleyford book?

[Barrett]

Air Aces was published in 19-ought-64: there's been an enormous amount of research in 45 years! That's the same timespan from the end of the war to when the book was published.

I don't have my copy at hand but would guesstimate the Harleyford list of British aces is about half of what's in the Grub Street books.

[josquin]

Doug

Barrett's estimate is accurate and it calls for you to use the old Harleyford
list with caution. It was one of the first comprehensive listings for the
British air services and it combined lists from many different sources--
some much less accurate or reliable than others. There are numerous
listings for airmen who were not aces (such as B.J.W.M. Moore, C.F.A.
Portal, W. Sholto Douglas, J.M. Bainbridge, D.H. De Burgh, and so on)
and other inconsistencies. You should consult the listing on the
Aerodrome, derived from Norman Franks' work ("Above the Trenches,"
"Above the Trenches Supplement," and "Above the War Fronts," all
publishedby Grub Street) first and disregard the Harleyford listing.

josquin

[Breguet]

Originally Posted by josquin

Doug

Barrett's estimate is accurate and it calls for you to use the old Harleyford
list with caution. It was one of the first comprehensive listings for the
British air services and it combined lists from many different sources--
some much less accurate or reliable than others. There are numerous
listings for airmen who were not aces (such as B.J.W.M. Moore, C.F.A.
Portal, W. Sholto Douglas, J.M. Bainbridge, D.H. De Burgh, and so on)
and other inconsistencies. You should consult the listing on the
Aerodrome, derived from Norman Franks' work ("Above the Trenches,"
"Above the Trenches Supplement," and "Above the War Fronts," all
publishedby Grub Street) first and disregard the Harleyford listing.

josquin

I wouldn't either disregard Harleyford all together nor trust ATT etc completely. The authors themselves admit to the fact that there is new info coming to light all the time. They have Dallas' score woefully wrong IMHO but then I'm a bit predjudiced . Mind you I wish Scott would fix up his score at least to the official one if not mine!

[josquin]

Breguet

I am really surprised that you set-up a forced-choice, either/or dilemma
for us: either trust ATT completely or disregard Harleyford. I don't
believe I advocated a complete trust of ATT, but I did say it was
far more accurate and I stand by my statement. This is not a choice
between alternatives of equal quality or accuracy, but your statements
give the impression that both are comparably useful. I haven't seen a
logical fallacy of this magnitude gracing the Forum within recent memory;
really, there are a number of other options, as well.

Regards

Josquin

[Breguet]

You misinterprate what I'm saying or rather I obviously didn't say it clearly enough.

The two things that they have in common is that both did the best they could with the available resources at their disposal and both have been superceeded in some areas by later information.

I am certainly not saying either/or anything. I have seen however too many take ATT etc as gospel and just want to warn against it (something your post didn't do). I have also seen too many people disreard an older source in favour of another simply because it was newer - also not nesecarily the wisest decision IMHO. AND you did suggest "Franks first and disregard Harleyford".

As for logical fallicies and other options I'm afraid they weren't apparent in your post and hence mine.